"Until Sansa's safely widowed": Littlefinger's Annulment Dilemma

[Newstar]

I've often seen talk on the boards about Littlefinger arranging for an annulment of Sansa's marriage. However, assuming LF is on the level in laying out his plan to Sansa, LF has no intention of annulling the marriage. Littlefinger in AFFC tells Sansa that the Harry/Sansa "must needs wait until Cersei is done and Sansa's safely widowed." Not "until Sansa's marriage is annulled." Not even "until Sansa's marriage is dealt with" or something similarly vague.

Why is LF banking on not disposing of the marriage but instead on Tyrion's death, when Tyrion is not only AWOL but has escaped Littlefinger's previous attempts to have him killed (dagger lie, possibly paying off Mandon Moore to attack him, PW)? LF of all people should know how difficult Tyrion is to kill, and yet he is relying on Tyrion being killed rather than on another way out of the marriage. Faking his death is also out of the question, as Tyrion has extremely distinctive features that make faking his death virtually impossible. As the posters have mentioned on the boards, there are other, seemingly far easier ways around the marriage than 1) finding a needle, albeit a highly recognizable needle, in a haystack and 2) killing someone with the survival skills of a cockroach:

1. Argue that the marriage was void as it was forced (vows at swordpoint have no meaning).

2. Argue that the marriage was void because Tyrion was still married to Tysha, a marriage LF knows about and was likely never properly annulled.

3. Just annul the marriage on the basis of non-consummation.

All of these seem easier than disposing of Tyrion, and yet LF, a consummately clever individual with a keen grasp of strategy, is banking on Tyrion dying and not on annulling the marriage. Why?

An SSM from 2000 (14 years ago, gods be good :D) revealed the following:

Tigers14: btw, can a marriage be annulled without both parties present? and without sansa revealing who she really is?

GeoRR: no one needs to be present to annul a marriage

Tigers14: how?

GeoRR: but Sansa would need to request it

Tigers14: as sansa?

GeoRR: Well, why would a High Septon consider a request from anyone but the parties involved?

Tigers14: i mean she can't hide who she is. she has to request that her marriage, her being sansa stark, to tyrion lannister be annulled.

Tigers14: which would imply that the High Septon would need to know that Sansa Stark is requesting the annulment of her marriage.

Tigers14: Which would reveal, to a certain extent where Sansa is.

GeoRR: yes indeed

So here's the answer. LF can't marry off Harry to Sansa until she's freed of her previous husband, and she can't be freed of her previous husband via annulment without outing Sansa's location, unless Tyrion dies. That explains why LF is banking on Tyrion's death--as difficult as it seems--rather than an annulment, because he cannot obtain an annulment without revealing Sansa's location.

The SSM suggests to me that GRRM, by imposing this particular requirement for a "request" from one of the spouses, has set up this situation quite deliberately, so that Sansa is basically stuck in a situation where she cannot be remarried, as any annulment cannot be achieved without outing her location, and as she won't be widowed anytime soon (since Tyrion will either survive the series or be killed off only at the end of the series). I think this was the purpose of the Tyrion/Sansa marriage, in fact: give Sansa a credible reason for not being married off, where eligible, politically valuable young women, especially friendless and vulnerable eligible, politically valuable young women get married off left, right and centre.

The Tyrion/Sansa marriage therefore effectively operates as a "marriage shield" for Sansa, protecting her from any political marriages, either to Harry or to anyone else, at least until such time as Tyrion dies, and I think this is entirely intentional on GRRM's part. Whatever he has in mind for Sansa, at least until after Tyrion's death (so essentially the remainder of the series), it involves something other than another marriage, and this is entirely in line with Sansa's thinking, since she has no interest in political marriages.

I think all the fevered speculation taking LF annulling the marriage and Sansa marrying Harry the Heir or Aegon as a foregone conclusion is entirely missing the point, because it seems to me GRRM married off Sansa to Tyrion and then put in place this obstacle to annulment precisely to prevent those or similar outcomes.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1. Argue that the marriage was void as it was forced (vows at swordpoint have no meaning).

2. Argue that the marriage was void because Tyrion was still married to Tysha, a marriage LF knows about and was likely never properly annulled.

3. Just annul the marriage on the basis of non-consummation.

I don't think that any of those can been proved.

[Newstar]

I don't think that any of those can been proved.

There was a thread suggesting that LF has Tysha stashed away somewhere and can produce her to have the marriage annulled, or, failing that, can produce a "Tysha" just as he produced an "Arya" to state all the relevant facts. LF has already indicated he knows about the marriage and could probably find out enough to fill in the details.

I don't know what's required exactly for annulling a marriage on the basis of non-consummation in Westeros, but presumably Sansa's word would suffice, and if some form of virginity testing is required (which I doubt, if all that's needed is a "request"), Sansa would pass that test and prove it easily.

As for the vows being forced, beyond the whole "war hostage" thing, and the conclusion that Sansa would never agree to marry a hideous, scarred dwarf being self-evident, you could probably scare up a few people from the wedding guests or who were there when Sansa was frogmarched to the sept by soldiers to marry Tyrion.

[jet199]

I think LF has been trying to get Tyrion killed since GOT. I don't know why but LF wants him dead and that is why he never considers getting the marriage annulled.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

There was a thread suggesting that LF has Tysha stashed away somewhere and can produce her to have the marriage annulled, or, failing that, can produce a "Tysha" just as he produced an "Arya" to state all the relevant facts. LF has already indicated he knows about the marriage and could probably find out enough to fill in the details.

And who will believe that *Tysha* is true?

I don't know what's required exactly for annulling a marriage on the basis of non-consummation in Westeros, but presumably Sansa's word would suffice, and if some form of virginity testing is required (which I doubt, if all that's needed is a "request"), Sansa would pass that test and prove it easily.

I will let Cersei answer that one:

“Did you chance to see the marriage bed the morning after?” Cersei asked. “Did she bleed?”

“No sheet was shown, Your Grace.”

A pity. Still, the absence of a bloody sheet meant little, by itself. Common peasant girls bled like pigs upon their wedding nights, she had heard, but that was less true of highborn maids like Margaery Tyrell. A lord’s daughter was more like to give her maidenhead to a horse than a husband, it was said, and Margaery had been riding since she was old enough to walk. “I understand the little queen has many admirers amongst our household knights. The Redwyne twins, Ser Tallad… who else, pray tell?”

As for the vows being forced, beyond the whole "war hostage" thing, and the conclusion that Sansa would never agree to marry a hideous, scarred dwarf being self-evident, you could probably scare up a few people from the wedding guests or who were there when Sansa was frogmarched to the sept by soldiers to marry Tyrion.

And Sansa was betrothed with Joff, so someone maybe think that she wanted to marry into the Lannisters.

I don't believe any of those, I am just playing devil's advocate.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Just a thought. Sansa was "given away" by Joffrey as her King, since all her family member were traitors. Those who don't recognize the right to the throne of Cersei's children and/or their kingly authority over them can declare the whole marriage as invalid, since Joffrey would have no right to wed Sansa to anyone. Right?

If such an argumentation actually makes sense by Westerosi laws, LF would need a relative of Sansa to make "his" marriage the valid one. Is this where the Blackfish comes into play???

[The Crow's Third Eye]

And who will believe that *Tysha* is true?

I will let Cersei answer that one:

And Sansa was betrothed with Joff, so someone maybe think that she wanted to marry into the Lannisters.

I don't believe any of those, I am just playing devil's advocate.

On your horse roding point, mayne thats why we hear so much about Sansa hating horses, to establish a reduced chance of that happening

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On your horse roding point, mayne thats why we hear so much about Sansa hating horses, to establish a reduced chance of that happening

It takes one time and Sansa most definitely had gone horse riding at least one time in her life.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Pretty sure if LF really wanted to, he could probably just pay the Faith off to get the marriage annulled. Nothings more legal than a stash of gold.

[Ahura Mazda]

Pretty sure if LF really wanted to, he could probably just pay the Faith off to get the marriage annulled. Nothings more legal than a stash of gold.

Only that nowadays corruption isn't particularly fashion among septons of the faith..

I still believe LF wants to play false, spreading the lie Tyron is dead.... this will allow him to declare both marriages nullified in case Tyrion shows up later on but gets really killed this once.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I think the Great One (now Tyrion seems to have escaped) is banking on two (and a half) things. The first of these is that the Vale Lords will accept a betrothal (not yet a marriage) between Sansa and Harry simply through a sense of loyalty and commitment to the Starks (and the Great One having control over them). Royce will I imagine become much more positively inclined towards the Great One should Alayne's identity by revealed.

Just a thought. Sansa was "given away" by Joffrey as her King, since all her family member were traitors. Those who don't recognize the right to the throne of Cersei's children and/or their kingly authority over them can declare the whole marriage as invalid, since Joffrey would have no right to wed Sansa to anyone. Right?

This is the second issue, one I'm still not sure on. I do however think that the marriage may simply be able to be declared null and void when/if the current monarch and his siblings are found to be illegitimate. Because nobody from her family was present o give Sansa away (or approve the marriage), it was Joffrey who escorted Sansa to the wedding and gave her away as the King. Should he be found to have been illegitimate, then this act was not one that had any legal credence.

Of course, this creates a whole set of new problems for the Great One, namely that it removes his claim to Harrenhal (though perhaps not the Vale, seeing as Lysa granted him power before her death).

The half point is that with the impending chaos that is about to his Westeros, it may be that nobody significant will actually be around to really care.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I do however think that the marriage may simply be able to be declared null and void when/if the current monarch and his siblings are found to be illegitimate. Because nobody from her family was present o give Sansa away (or approve the marriage), it was Joffrey who escorted Sansa to the wedding and gave her away as the King. Should he be found to have been illegitimate, then this act was not one that had any legal credence.

Nah, I have to agree with Newstar - far too many poster are expecting an annulment which will more than likely never happen. Whether Joff is declared a bastard or not, Sansa is now married to Tyrion. That won't go away because no one from her family gave her away.

I do believe they will be married at the end of the story however, I'm not sure if both will outlive the books. In any case, I do believe it will be death that separates them and not a High Septon and DEFINITELY not anyone political either from the North or South, regardless of how much Sansa fans want to free her with their creative scenarios. These two were married and married they will likely stay and death do them part.

[Castellan]

I think Littlefingers plans are in a bit of trouble due to Tyrion's escape. The Vale Lords might accept a betrothal but they'd rather have marriage. They could, of course, carry out an actual marriage, since by marrying Sansa, Harry and the Vale will be going up against the Crown anyway. They'd simply declare that her previous marriage was illegal and unconsummated, and rely on being able to get that rubberstamped at some time if they are victorious. But it would all be so much easier if Tyrion was dead.

Obviously there are grounds for getting the marriage annulled, mainly the fact that it is not consummated, but whether it was successful would depend on who was in power and who the High Septon was and the relative standing of Tyrion and Sansa in the balance of power. Its not going to happen for a while.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Of course, this creates a whole set of new problems for the Great One, namely that it removes his claim to Harrenhal (though perhaps not the Vale, seeing as Lysa granted him power before her death).

Funny thing is, that Harrenhall, strictly speaking and from an anti-Lannister perspective, now should belong to the Tullys (Edmure), since Hoster`s wife was a Whent, who are extinct now.

[Lord Kenny Dondarrion]

I always thought when Littlefinger said that Tyrion was to be executed, or at least those where the last news in the vale, therefore it would make no sense to annulate the wedding, since tyrion wouldn't last much longer

[R.O.Edwards]

I always wondered how Tywin annulled the marriage to Tysha

it's said several times that a marriage can't be annulled once consummated and we know Tyrion and Tysha did consummate so.....?

is Tywin that powerful that he can overrule the laws of the faith ?

if not then Tyrions marriage to sansa is illegal anyway.

[para]

IMO the Harry the Heir plot is going nowhere fast. Besides the obvious stumbling block of Sansa's marriage there are many other issues. Chief among them, LF's own ambition. Why waste his greatest asset on the Vale if he can climb higher than that? Aegon's existence and marital status will certainly make him pause. Not saying that that plot would be going anywhere, just that it will be another wrench in that plan.

[chrisdaw]

The only audience he needs to convince the marriage is annulled is the Vale. The Harry marriage is for the purpose is to consolidate the Vale forces behind a conquest of the North. And they'll be a receptive audience, no love for the Lannisters there, pulling out some Septon in the Vale and convincing him to annul the marriage would be good enough for the Vale, that KL wouldn't accept it doesn't matter as when LF reveals Sansa he becomes an enemy of the IT anyway.

It's not going to matter though, regardless of who blesses it Tyrion isn't going to be considering the marriage annulled when he comes back and claims his wife, the marriage is set for the long term.

[shade2379]

Perhaps LF is less concerned with Sansa's engagement/marriage than he is with Harry's. I.e. So long as Harry is engaged to Sansa he can't marry anyone else, especially anyone who might shore up his own claim to The Vale and undermine LFs foothold on the same. Regardless, whatever LF is up to here is likely far more subtle and convoluted than it appears.

[Raven in Winter]

I wondered that myself. With Tyrion in Essos odds are LF would never even hear of Tyrion's death. Weird.