Who poisoned the locusts?

[complexphoenix]

Why would the Sons of the Harpy want to make peace with Daenerys?

As long as Daenerys lives, they are cut off from their old livelihood and way of life as slavers. If Daenerys dies, everything she built will fall apart overnight and they can retake power and return to the status quo ante. They have every reason to want her dead and no reason at all to compromise except as a buy-time measure until such time as they can kill her.

[Mithras]

In ACoK, Tyrion gave Cersei a diarrhea inflicting medicine of Pycelle to take her out of the picture for a while. I think the “poison” in the locusts is something similar to it.

Even though I like the abortion theory very much, Team Harpy did not have to do that during the opening ceremony. They might have waited for a month or two and then use the moon tea for abortion. The side effects of a forced abortion (diarrhea, vomiting, pain, etc.) might cast doubts of poisoning on Dany, and she might have gone Fire and Blood on the Harpy.

[Fire Eater]

Why would the Sons of the Harpy want to make peace with Daenerys?

As long as Daenerys lives, they are cut off from their old livelihood and way of life as slavers. If Daenerys dies, everything she built will fall apart overnight and they can retake power and return to the status quo ante. They have every reason to want her dead and no reason at all to compromise except as a buy-time measure until such time as they can kill her.

They can't military defeat her as she has the larger, more disciplined army and dragons. Such a group would usually need a groundswell of popular support, but the majority of the Meereenese population, the freedmen, support Dany.

They want a peace as without it they have an army outside their walls waiting to sack their city. Killing her would be prompting retribution from her supporters inside and outside the walls of Meereen, and no one to control the dragons. The Harpy is practical, and knows that while they can't defeat her militarily, they can marry her to Hizdahr who as King could initiate changes in her policy.

[complexphoenix]

Those Meereenese Blot essays really got me thinking. If the issue here is that Meereen really does have a deep and rich fabric of different people with different styles and motives, but Dany and Barristan can't see it very well, how might GRRM shed more light on it? Maybe he could give the TWOW prologue to a Ghiscari native? Or maybe he'll choose to leave it deeply subtle.

[The_Leech_Lord]

Whoever it was, it sure wasn't Hizdahr or the Green Grace: They had zero reason whatsoever to murder Dany at that point. The fighting pits were back in business, they had been allowed to buy the starving masses back into slavery, and they'd gotten themselves a royal match. Dany's army was still occupying Meereen and she had no convenient pliable younger sister to marry in her place. Openly Tyrelling Dany before she and Hizhdahr had an heir was an absurd move.

It makes more sense for the poisoner to be Shakaz, using a non-lethal poison to shatter the peace treaty between Dany and the Harpy. But it appears it turned out to be for the best: Once Yurkhaz was trampled to death and Dany fled on Drogon, if Barry hadn't deposed Hizhdahr and essentially formed a junta with the Shavepate, the city would have fallen to the slaver alliance.

It makes zero sense for Skahaz to do this. This point has been brought up repeatedly in the original essay page: Skahaz did not need to wait ninety days(I think?) and till after the marriage(to Skahaz's political rival) to shatter the peace. Skahaz has control of Brazen Beasts, he can kill any freedman himself to shatter the peace. Seeing as how the essay paints him as a Meereenese Littlefinger, I cannot believe that he would not have seen that Hizdahr would have him replaced.

Here is my original post from The Mereeneese blot:

Good theory- however I’d like to raise some points:

-You’re saying Skahaz is as cunning as Varys/ Littlefinger. Is it conceivable that he does not realize that Hizdahr coming to power will mean that he will get fired? If he does, then he has three months of time to kill a single freedman.

-Belwas is much bigger than Dany, and much stronger than Dany, and he eats a lot of those locusts. My theory is that Hizdahr and the Harpies never wanter to kill Dany- I agree that her Unsullied/Freedmen would go on a rampage. The fact that the poison merely makes Belwas sick, suggests that Dany was intended to become an Absentee Queen- as eventually happens, and we already know how Hizdahr seizes power.

-The ruling families of Meereen are in trouble- the’ve lost their most valuable source of income, and a lot- 163 of them- are dead. Also Dany has shown herself to be pro- freedom, which is very troubling for them.Plus they risk getting embroiled in a war with Yunkai. I dont believe that the Families would agree to a peace.The peace is a sham.

-Hizdahr’s pause while answering speaks a lot.

-why is Skahaz in such a hurry to break the peace, in such a stupid manner? Why the fighting pits, when he can use his brazen beasts to do so much more? I dont believe it would be difficult for him to introduce poison in her food when she is eating in her private quarters. As such poisoning her/anyone else during the fighting is risky at best.Poisoning her in private would sow much more suspicion on Hizdahr.

Tell me if I’ve made a wrong point,long time since I read the books!

[The_Leech_Lord]

And the best thing about the plan is that even if somebody else other than Dany eats the locusts, it still gives him an excuse to break the peace and gain favor. In fact, even if Dany died (by say eating the whole bowl), the Shavepate could have planned to take advantage of it by blaming the Harpy and taking control of the Dany loyalists (Unsullied, freedmen) and the Brazen Beasts. It looks like no matter what happens, the Shavepate likely gains.

Skahaz is not employed by Dany at all anymore. Isnt it more likely that Hizdahr(her lawful husband) would blame the Harpy(Remember that it's not so clear to them that Hizdahr==Harpy) and then take control of the Unsullied? The Unsullied do not riot and plunder, so no concerns as to how they will react. Send them out of the city on some excuse or other, close gates, watch them be killed by Yunkish(??) and resume slave trade. this has lesses pitfalls imo

[FittleLinger]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I figured it's better than starting a new one. I didn't read all of the thread, but is it established already that Dany wasn't the target? That, or simply a very moronic poisoner. It's pretty obvious that Dany doesn't eat their "delicacies" like dogs or locusts. Even if the poisoner wasn't aware of her eating habits, the safe bet for posoning a foreigner would not be in one of your exotic meals that many foreigners find disgusting.

So, who was the poison for, or is it just another instance of the Essosi moustache twirling villains that make non-sense moves?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I figured it's better than starting a new one. I didn't read all of the thread, but is it established already that Dany wasn't the target? That, or simply a very moronic poisoner. It's pretty obvious that Dany doesn't eat their "delicacies" like dogs or locusts. Even if the poisoner wasn't aware of her eating habits, the safe bet for posoning a foreigner would not be in one of your exotic meals that many foreigners find disgusting.

So, who was the poison for, or is it just another instance of the Essosi moustache twirling villains that make non-sense moves?

I don't think anything's been established. I think the Shavepate set up Hizdhar.

[FittleLinger]

Oh, and another think. Just before Drogon arrives, Dany gets sick, and even undresses. She accounts it to the heat, gore, smell and the overall disgust with the whole thing, but could she have been poisoned to a small amount, too? Was it pointed out she ate something at all - I don't remember?

Also, this could be a potential connection to her getting sick later (which was either the berries, or a miscariage, but could've been aided by this potential posoning as well).

Any comments on this will be appreciated.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Oh, and another think. Just before Drogon arrives, Dany gets sick, and even undresses. She accounts it to the heat, gore, smell and the overall disgust with the whole thing, but could she have been poisoned to a small amount, too? Was it pointed out she ate something at all - I don't remember?

Also, this could be a potential connection to her getting sick later (which was either the berries, or a miscariage, but could've been aided by this potential posoning as well).

Any comments on this will be appreciated.

No, I don't believe she ate any of the locusts. Strong Belwas gobbled 'em all up, didn't he?

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I figured it's better than starting a new one. I didn't read all of the thread, but is it established already that Dany wasn't the target? That, or simply a very moronic poisoner. It's pretty obvious that Dany doesn't eat their "delicacies" like dogs or locusts. Even if the poisoner wasn't aware of her eating habits, the safe bet for posoning a foreigner would not be in one of your exotic meals that many foreigners find disgusting.

So, who was the poison for, or is it just another instance of the Essosi moustache twirling villains that make non-sense moves?

You should definetly read the essays of this blog on the issue as it does a good job investigating and arguing about the issue:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

[FittleLinger]

No, I don't believe she ate any of the locusts. Strong Belwas gobbled 'em all up, didn't he?

Yeah, I meant other meals that she could've eaten. Were the locusts the only meal? I don't remember, but I doubt it.

Qhorin - I've read them some time ago, but I don't think they cover these two things I'm interested in - is it possible that other meals were poisoned and Dany ate some of it, and were the locusts poisoned intentionally so that Dany doesn't eat them?

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Yeah, I meant other meals that she could've eaten. Were the locusts the only meal? I don't remember, but I doubt it.

Qhorin - I've read them some time ago, but I don't think they cover these two things I'm interested in - is it possible that other meals were poisoned and Dany ate some of it, and were the locusts poisoned intentionally so that Dany doesn't eat them?

It seems to argue that the target was not Daenerys who probably won't gorge on foreign delicacies such as locusts but to shift blame on the poisoning on the Harpy (Daenery's husband and the green grace). So the target was anyone else who would like the local delicacy, so it seems that if the Shavespate is the poisoner as it argues they were poisoned intentionally so that Dany doesn't eat them or maybe in combination with that the poison is not potent enough if she does not eat many of them.The goal of the poison is not primarilly to kill but to blame the Harpy for it. After all strong Belwas survives the poison, and sure his size might have helped maybe, but he ate a lot of them and we several times have seen potent poisons that tend to have more fatal results.

As for other meals being poisoned, I dunno what to think about that.