Too Many POVs

[jet199]

The ones I think definitely will go are:

Barristan Selmy

Asha Greyjoy

Jon Connington

Melisandre

The probables are:

Jaime Lannister or Brienne of Tarth depending on what happens with Lady Stoneheart

Victarion Greyjoy or Aeron Greyjoy depending on what Euron is really up to

Arianne Martell or Areo Hotah depending on whether Doran's plans come to anything

If GRRM really wants to get down to nine POVs these could all go. I would be worried for Sam and Cersei too as they both seem to be out of the loop at the moment. I think characters will have to die or become insane to stop having POVs.

[aceluby]

Man, couldn't disagree more. Vic, Brienne, & Dany in feast and dance were some of my favorite characters to read. The first time through for Vic I kept confusing him w/ damphair and didn't care. This time I know who he is, why he's doing what he's doing, and how badass the dude is. Brienne I was bored with the travelogue, but through her you get some great scenes w/ Tarly, the biter scene, interactions w/ LS, Pod, plus quite a few easter eggs in feast. For Dany, the first time through I couldn't keep any of the characters in Essos straight and was distracted by my hatred for Daario. The 2nd time through I didn't care about Daario and focused on the character building in Essos and enjoyed those incredibly.

If you haven't read AFFC and ADWD in parallel I would HIGHLY recommend it for a re-read. It's the way the book(s) were written and IMO need to be read in that way in order to really appreciate how good those books are. As a single HUGE novel I liked it more than ASOS.

[jet199]

I would say that just because a character is good to read it does not make them less likely to die in asoiaf. If anything the characters who are going to die unexpectedly will be written so you really don't want them to die then their death will have a bigger impact.

[Lord Fred of Mole's Town]

Please note that GRRM has also stated (in retrospect) that he probably should have had a Robb PoV as well. Not that it mattered after ASoS though!

And what about the epilogue/prologue narratives? They are additional PoVs (in a sense). Heck, I'm rooting for more PoVs (at least temporarily), like Benjen up north and Stannis dammit!

In any case, I agree with others that there will be a balance of PoV terminations and combinations. The fun for us will be how GRRM chooses to terminate and combine.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

I don't know how Areo could possibly be relevent ever again. Maybe if Darkstar turns out to be some secret Targ, which is the height of crackpottery, but I doubt it. I give him one more chapter to die and possibly reveal why Darkstar is 'dangerous.'

[Mr Fixit]

I am a big proponent of PoV economy - in the first three books, Martin included only the most essential PoVs which turned out to be a good thing. He could've written chapters from the perspective of one of the Tyrells or Robb (this one would've actually been OK with me) or any number of other characters.

If I were to engage in some reediting/rewriting, I'd completely cut out Aeron, Victarion, Areo Hotah, Arys Oakheart, and Quentyn Martell. Many other AFfC/ADwD characters could stand to have some chapters completely cut or material rearranged into another chapter - Sam, Brienne, Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon, Davos...

No way around it; the last two books are way too bloated for their own good. Take several hundred pages out of them, include the natural conclusions from the beginning of TWoW, and we have a winner.

[Ice_Specter]

Does anyone think GRRM might be getting an itchy trigger finger for a major POV? It's been awhile sense he's dusted someone big and beloved.... just sayin...He killed Neddly in book 1, Catelyn in book 3 isn't he maybe overdue for a shocker?

Indeed. I see Winds of Winter being like storm of swords. I can see quite a few key characters dying off to be honest

[Ser Onaventea Helms]

With the next two books going to be suuuuupppppeeerrr long, I think the amount of POVS in ADwD should be fine.

[ladytiger]

Out of the 20 remaining POV characters, I'd say anywhere from 5-12 will die by the end of TWoW. I think only having around 8-10 POV characters for ADoS would be good for me.

[Ours if the Fury]

Like what had been stated i only think GRRM will have 17 POV's max

and then maybe 16-18 if they are alive in (DoS) so he can end everyones story...

I honestly think povs for WoW will be

1. Sansa
   
2. Arya
   
3. Jon Snow
   
4. Dany
   
5. Tyrion
   
6. Cersei - assuming she dies, she will be taken out
   
7. Jamie
   
8. Theon - will probably bite the dust…
   
9. Arienne
   
10. Barristan - either him or Victarion are dying in the next book
    
11. Victarion - either him or Selmy are dying in the next book
    
12. Areon - Euron will kill him…
    
13. Areo - won't be needed after this book
    
14. Davos
    
15. Asha
    
16. Bran
    
17. Sam
    

I can't see any more then 4-5 major as in POV characters dying yet:

and its safe to assume that characters like Arya and Sansa, Jamie, cersei and Jon are very important to the plot and so will get at least 6-8 chapters each, add this to tyrion and danys count which together will at least make 15 and add in people like davos, theon, arienne and Bran who will also be playing a major role in the upcoming events and that will add at least another 15-20 and then the minor Pov's who will get around ten…. thats a lot of reading but what we do know and what GRRM knows is that people will be killed off and in bloody fashion...

so when DoS is finally realised everything would have been sorted out and a even amount of POV's will be remaining to continue the story ...

[Nictarion]

I think it's my favorite after my re-read. So many things happen and there are so many well written chapters.

I also appreciated it so much more on my second reading.

[thegloriousedd]

I also appreciated it so much more on my second reading.

The second read was better for me as well.

[FaSome]

I feel like there are too many POVs with Daenerys, so either Vic or Barry will sadly have to meet their end shortly. I just hope whichever one it is goes out in good fashion. For the record it would be beyond badass to see Vic and Barry on a battlefield in Westeros somewhere fighting side by side...

Jon Con is likely to perish too, especially if Arianne ends up sticking around with Aegon.

Surprisingly I don't feel like Hotah is as close to death as most think, but maybe Hotah does die and Doran's plans begin to unfold with him off screen or so to speak..I'd rather see Hotah die protecting Doran though personally.

I think Theon's end is drawing near. The moment he was brought to Stannis pretty much sealed the deal for him. The only way he eludes his nearing death again is if Stannis loses to the Boltons, but with all of the inner turmoil Bolton and co have going on I doubt they can defeat Stannis.

[Ours if the Fury]

I feel like there are too many POVs with Daenerys, so either Vic or Barry will sadly have to meet their end shortly. I just hope whichever one it is goes out in good fashion. For the record it would be beyond badass to see Vic and Barry on a battlefield in Westeros somewhere fighting side by side...

Jon Con is likely to perish too, especially if Arianne ends up sticking around with Aegon.

Surprisingly I don't feel like Hotah is as close to death as most think, but maybe Hotah does die and Doran's plans begin to unfold with him off screen or so to speak..I'd rather see Hotah die protecting Doran though personally.

I think Theon's end is drawing near. The moment he was brought to Stannis pretty much sealed the deal for him. The only way he eludes his nearing death again is if Stannis loses to the Boltons, but with all of the inner turmoil Bolton and co have going on I doubt they can defeat Stannis.

Yeh i agree i cannot see theon making it past mid way through WoW, i would like to see him kill Ramsey and then die… finally at peace.

Jon Cot, will die fighting for aegon...

[Kingdoms'Rights]

Well, if you believe the whole "we came into this world together, we are going to leave this world together" thing Cersei spits out, then that takes out two POVs at the same time. Not sure if this will happen late in TWOW or in ADOS, but i strongly believe its going to happen.

Also, Areo will have at least (and hopefully only) 1 POV in TWOW to show us why Darkstar is a badass/letdown. Then, Dorne can go back to being a behind the scenes plot like it was for the first 3 books (when i actually liked them), especially since all their players, minus Doran, are in and around KL or in Oldtown where there are already other POVs.

JonCon is definitely not gonna be a POV the whole way through TWOW. Between his greyscale and Arianne heading towards Aegon, JonCon may not have a single POV in TWOW.

Its been confirmed that Aeron Greyjoy is going to resurface, but hopefully with no more than 2 chapters. He is going to drop a bomb or two (Euron is this, Euron is that...) and then will hopefully die off.

I'm also pretty confident that after the battle for Mereen, Barry will either be dead or just go back to being a non-POV.

GRRM cant cut all his POVs at once, but i think he will find a manageable way to get rid of them little by little. Mostly by deaths cause he does love to kill.

[LadyEmma]

This is a great topic! I think it's interesting seeing people's answers and relating that to how they see the story unfolding.

Daenerys Targaryen-- continues to have POV throughout the next 2 books. She represents to me the fire part of the song. (Starks' collectively ice).

Jon Snow-- will have POV in next 2 books. His story just isn't done yet and it would only leave one other POV on the Wall.

Bran Stark - will continue to have a voice in series; too much has been set up for his story to just have him turn into a watching tree/quorking crow.

Arya Stark- will be in both books. The FM plot needs to be finished and I really see Jon's comment about roads to same castle as foreshadowing.

Sansa Stark- will be in both books. With so much emphasis on gaming, she is only one that has been groomed to be a player of Stark family.

Tyrion Lannister- will be in both books. With respect to the game part of plot he is certainly one hell of a player.

Jaime Lannister - will be in WoW but die by end. His story is about all done and just needs wrapped up.

Cersei Lannister- ditto.

Asha Greyjoy- I don't think she will have POV anymore. Her voice isn't needed any longer and while a character I like, she doesn't contribute to either main plots.

Theon Greyjoy- will have POV but die in WoW. His story isn't completed and also is eyes/voice for Stannis actions.

Victarion Greyjoy-Will have POV in WoW; not last book; doesn't die. He brings Danny's army back to Westros.

Aeron Greyjoy-no POV in WoW; comes back in last book. I think the story would read better if told through him to wrap up the Iron Island part in story. *shrug*

Arianne Martell- I think we know she has POV in WoW? It's hard to say about last book though. She doesn't seem good enough to play thrones nor does she contribute to fire/ice plot unless I'm missing something. However, I think the Martell's will continue to have part to play to end so she could be eyes/voice for her father and Aegon.

Davos Seaworth- will continue through both books. He is voice/eyes for both Stannis and Rickon coming back.

Samwell Tarly- will be in WoW. We have the Sphinx, Sam and the FM at the Citadel. I think his role could be wrapped up in WoW. He doesn't die.

Brienne of Tarth- will not have POV anymore. Probably dies trying to save Jamie.

Barristan Selmy- we know he has POV in WoW however I think he will die in that book. RIP

Areo Hotah- may be unpopular but I think he'll continue to have POV in both books. He is eyes/voice for Lord Martell and I think better placed to do so than Arianne.

Jon Connington- will have POV in WoW probably dies by end. Yes, Arienne provides voice for Aegon but I think we need Jon for his age/knowledge of history.

Melisandre- will have POV in WoW and dies by end. She will be a voice to tell about the Wall and Stannis. I've tried to make my predictions on plot alone but I think I fail most with her.

So I think I have 11 POV at the beginning of last book.

[Malcolm of House Tucker]

:agree:

Edit: The only POV I could see not returning is Melisandre, as she only had one chapter.

I think Melisandre will be around at least for the beginning of Winds of Winter, especially with Jon being in his current state...we will need a POV at the Wall for that fallout.

[Gneisenau]

Are we assuming the POV removed implies said character dies ?

[Florina Laufeyson]

Selmy WoW Spoiler:

Selmy's comments make me think that the dragons have already come to fight, now we just need to know if it's from the horn and if so how much control do they have over them. He seems confident that they will be attacking their enemies though. :)

Well..i think Vic having that horn is actually a way to make the dragons cease fighting otherwise, they will fight each other. If Princess and the Queen taught me anything, its that when dragons fight each other, its usually to the death.

"A man cannot know what dwells in the heart of a dragon..."

I think GRRM has a stopper on dragon death with that damned horn. People are going to die in a very painful way in Meereen once Rhaegal and Viserion start blasting shit. If they turn on each other...HORN!

[mindchap]

Well..i think Vic having that horn is actually a way to make the dragons cease fighting otherwise, they will fight each other. If Princess and the Queen taught me anything, its that when dragons fight each other, its usually to the death.

"A man cannot know what dwells in the heart of a dragon..."

I think GRRM has a stopper on dragon death with that damned horn. People are going to die in a very painful way in Meereen once Rhaegal and Viserion start blasting shit. If they turn on each other...HORN!

I agree, but:

WoW/PatQ Spoiler:

The horn has been blown, Tyrion sees them eating folks and Selmy remarks that his men are used to the dragons and that they won't be fighting against them. It makes me wonder what in those other first few chapters has happened to make him think that they won't attack Dany's men. Unless he's just completely underestimating them. Does anyone know the order of the sample chapters that have been released and/or read? Or maybe all goes well and they reach Westeros with all three only to find that some of the MIA dragons from PatQ left a clutch somewhere that has hatched..... :)