Why didn't Rhaegar challenge Robert to a duel (like Littlefinger vs Brandon)?

[Ygrain]

Why don't you answer that last question?

Or is it because you can't?

And p much all Targs were mouthbreathers. The Princess and the Queen proved that to me.

Eh... if you are aware of a prophecy from a reliable source (i.e., one that has already been proven right), shouldn't you try your best to try to make it happen? Because, you know, a planetary cataclysm is still a worse option that a political shitstorm (as the outcome that Rhaegar could have reasonably expected, not a full-scale war that actually happened).

Plus, we can see that the Long Winter is indeed coming, the Others are on the move... that part Rhaegar got definitely right, and didn't try to conceive PTWP not a moment too soon.

[Sansa_Stark]

Eh... if you are aware of a prophecy from a reliable source (i.e., one that has already been proven right), shouldn't you try your best to try to make it happen? Because, you know, a planetary cataclysm is still a worse option that a political shitstorm (as the outcome that Rhaegar could have reasonably expected, not a full-scale war that actually happened).

Plus, we can see that the Long Winter is indeed coming, the Others are on the move... that part Rhaegar got definitely right, and didn't try to conceive PTWP not a moment too soon.

Why not try to fulfill the prophecy with less risks? Why Lyanna? Why not random northern girl #24389787? A political shitstorm or even a full-scale war(which he should have at least accounted for, if not he's stupid like people have been saying) could possibly weaken the realm once The Others come.

And how do we know the prophecy is a reliable source? Who is it from? The scroll? The woods witch?

[Ygrain]

Why not try to fulfill the prophecy with less risks? Why Lyanna? Why not random northern girl #24389787? A political shitstorm or even a full-scale war(which he should have at least accounted for, if not he's stupid like people have been saying) could possibly weaken the realm once The Others come.

And how do we know the prophecy is a reliable source? Who is it from? The scroll? The woods witch?

If the prophecy came from the same person who had warned the Targaryens to move away from Valyria, I'd call it a very reliable source. The same for the Ghost of the High Heart - if Egg took her word seriously enough to order the marriage of Aerys and Rhaella, he must have had a reason (and we as readers see her visions right, as well).

As for Lyanna... we see the Starks born with some special powers, apparently inherited from somewhere up their lineage. Perhaps it was crucial to join the two lineages (a la Dune, to create Kwisatz Haderach)? In that case it really couldn't be just any northern girl, it had to be a Stark, and Lyanna was the only available.

[Sansa_Stark]

If the prophecy came from the same person who had warned the Targaryens to move away from Valyria, I'd call it a very reliable source. The same for the Ghost of the High Heart - if Egg took her word seriously enough to order the marriage of Aerys and Rhaella, he must have had a reason (and we as readers see her visions right, as well).

As for Lyanna... we see the Starks born with some special powers, apparently inherited from somewhere up their lineage. Perhaps it was crucial to join the two lineages (a la Dune, to create Kwisatz Haderach)? In that case it really couldn't be just any northern girl, it had to be a Stark, and Lyanna was the only available.

You mean Daenys the Dreamer? What did she predict about TPWWP?

The ghost of high heart? We don't even know her prophecy. Chances are the whole "Prince who was Promised prophecy" she made just equated to Lyanna's "Promise me" and Jon is just a normal dude with warg powers....and well Targ/Stark ancestry. We actually don't know what her prophecy was. Her visions might be right, but I'm going to argue the Targs with their grandoise attitudes and low intelligence probably just assumed some vague prophecy meant PWWP without thinking things through.

And to your last point, skinchanging isn't a Stark exclusive thing. In fact, are the Starks known exclusively for strong Skinchanging powers if that is what you are referring too? Do they have a bloodline that guarantees or strengthens skinchanging? Mormont women are skinchangers too :)

[corbon]

Why don't you answer that last question?

Or is it because you can't?

Because the first was too stupid to acknowledge, let alone respond too, and had just followed on from the ridiculous statement that the Targs universally suffered from low intelligence, then I pretty much stopped noticing the rest. But you insist, so...

What consequences did the Targs leaving Valyria have? oh noes they look weak. EXILE is such TORTURE.

Umm, surviving the Doom is a pretty big consequence. Duh.

Point is, the results of prophecy being so hard to interpret....doesn't that make Rhaegar irresponsible regardless?

Oh, so clever. Its a prophecy about the world ending, but since I could be wrong about what I have to do, I'll ignore it entirely instead of doing my best to follow it faithfully.

Yep, we can see who the mouthbreather is here.

And why Lyanna Stark? Why not just find some random whore and birth a child off of her? It wouldn't be so scandalous or Rhaegar to birth a girl from someone lower born than Lyanna. It didn't have to even be a whore. Why not some other northern girl?

We. Don't. Know.

We do have a clue in "the song of ice and fire". Maybe.

But not knowing means that our understanding is incomplete, not that Rhaegar is a mouthbreather because we don't understand everything.

And p much all Targs were mouthbreathers. The Princess and the Queen proved that to me.

Riiiight. Because when you don't understand someone, that means they are as thick as pig shit, not that they are operating at a higher level or with more information or with differing priorities than you. Its not your understanding that lacks, ever - even when it is.

And how do we know the prophecy is a reliable source? Who is it from? The scroll? The woods witch?

We don't know very much. Except that Maester Aemon intimates that the prophecy is widely known and widely considered very important.

And that Rhaegar was considered amazingly clever by the most educated men in Westeros. And prepared to change his life to fit prophecy as best he could. And prepared to adjust his perceptions when he found he was wrong, or got new information.

But of course, your answer is "we don't know anything so he must be a mouthbreathing idiot".

If you continue in the same vein, don't expect further replies from me. If you come up with something a bit more sensible though, I'm happy to discuss.

[Viserys_The Transformed]

Rhaegar was a man in Love

[Jon's Queen Consort]

And you certainly have some quotes so far uknown to the forums to support such claims? The Faith uprising mentions specifically incest, not polygamy.

:bowdown: So much better, more elegant and efficient that me... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Ygrain]

:bowdown: So much better, more elegant and efficient that me... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Elegance comes with practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K39UWxdm0U&list=PLoE-XW5HuJ9ralIccpVIxDqKHidVW9o8D from about 1:10 on :-)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Elegance comes with practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K39UWxdm0U&list=PLoE-XW5HuJ9ralIccpVIxDqKHidVW9o8D from about 1:10 on :-)

:eek: WTF is this? :eek: It's awesome! What happens next? :bawl:

You would be surprised what this awesome assassin has with Jon. :cool4:

[Ygrain]

:eek: WTF is this? :eek: It's awesome! What happens next? :bawl:

You would be surprised what this awesome assassin has with Jon. :cool4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Vo3hYt_is

The trailer is based on the opening cinematics which goes a couple seconds further :-)

Must be that "snow" and "frozen to the bones" lyrics :D Other than that, Jon has a lot to learn to reach the level of badassery of Ezio Auditore :cool4:

[Jon's Queen Consort]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Vo3hYt_is

The trailer is based on the opening cinematics which goes a couple seconds further :-)

Must be that "snow" and "frozen to the bones" lyrics :D Other than that, Jon has a lot to learn to reach the level of badassery of Ezio Auditore :cool4:

THANK YOU! That was awesome, he was awesome!

As for Jon, I bet that once we wakes up from his nap he will be badass, not Ezio's level but badass nevertheless.

[Morienthar]

Because even Rhaegar wasn't that stupid?? on a battlefield he had half a chance of killing Bob but in a one on one duel,it would be nearly impossible especially since he would be quite pissed by the reason for the challenge in the first place,Though even if the challenge occurred a war would have taken place as Aerys would still have asked for Robert and Ned's heads.

[Ygrain]

THANK YOU! That was awesome, he was awesome!

As for Jon, I bet that once we wakes up from his nap he will be badass, not Ezio's level but badass nevertheless.

All the AC trailers are awesome, I think, but this one totally rocks.

As for the latter, I'm jumping on my seat to see it! May the gods old and new bless GRRM's writing with speed :P

[Jon's Queen Consort]

All the AC trailers are awesome, I think, but this one totally rocks.

As for the latter, I'm jumping on my seat to see it! May the gods old and new bless GRRM's writing with speed :P

It will happen, JQC said solemnly, I've dreamed of it. :closedeyes:

[Ygrain]

It will happen, JQC said solemnly, I've dreamed of it. :closedeyes:

:bowdown: Please, share the Compendium of your dreams! :bowdown:

[Sansa_Stark]

Because the first was too stupid to acknowledge, let alone respond too, and had just followed on from the ridiculous statement that the Targs universally suffered from low intelligence, then I pretty much stopped noticing the rest. But you insist, so...

Instead of insulting people's intelligence why don't you reread what I said. I said Targs were "pretty much" all stupid. Meaning they were not universally stupid. Meaning I think most of them were dumb, I would say. Of course they had some intelligent people along the line. But they were far fewer than the norm imo.

Umm, surviving the Doom is a pretty big consequence. Duh.

Negative consequences. You already pointed this out.

Oh, so clever. Its a prophecy about the world ending, but since I could be wrong about what I have to do, I'll ignore it entirely instead of doing my best to follow it faithfully.

Yep, we can see who the mouthbreather is here.

The guy who p much helped ruin his family and got a warhammer to the chest because of his grandoise arrogance? All for a prophecy that may or may not have any merit to it at all(at best, it might not have even come to that)?

Clearly, Rhaegar wasn't very bright.

We. Don't. Know.

We do have a clue in "the song of ice and fire". Maybe.

Maybe. And Maybe it means nothing.

But not knowing means that our understanding is incomplete, not that Rhaegar is a mouthbreather because we don't understand everything.

But clearly he is a mouthbreather. My point still stands, the way he dealt with the whole Robert situation was complete dumbassery.

Riiiight. Because when you don't understand someone, that means they are as thick as pig shit, not that they are operating at a higher level or with more information or with differing priorities than you. Its not your understanding that lacks, ever - even when it is.

Targs were known for being mad though. It's common knowledge. Even Baristan states

I am no maester to quote history at you, Your Grace. Swords have been my life, not books. But every child knows that the Targaryens have always danced too close to madness. Your father was not the first. King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land.

Its common knowledge that they were mad. Every child knows. And I have to lolf at Jaeherys trying to justify it. "But but, half of us turn out great"

I'm gong to argue, that they don't.

We don't know very much. Except that Maester Aemon intimates that the prophecy is widely known and widely considered very important.

And that Rhaegar was considered amazingly clever by the most educated men in Westeros. And prepared to change his life to fit prophecy as best he could. And prepared to adjust his perceptions when he found he was wrong, or got new information.

But of course, your answer is "we don't know anything so he must be a mouthbreathing idiot".

There are different kinds of being "smart" So what if Maester's found him "smart" in one way. From what I know of Rhaegar. I consider him a grade A dumbass. And I'm going to argue that Rhaegar didn't know as much as he thought he did or had shitty interpreting skills. He went from being the PTTP to having his son being the PTTP to maybe possibly his child with Lyanna being the PTTP(maybe). He literally changed his entire life from reading a few scrolls.

My point is this if you don't feel like reading any of the above. This is my main point.

We don't know if Rhaegar's actions did any good or not. If he did what he did because he thought his child would be some prophetic hero, then I have to question his sanity and intelligence, seeing as his actions did a lot to ruin his family.

We don't know if he turned out right or wrong. And we don't know what his motivations were.

What we do know for certain, is that his actions did harm his family, and led to a situation where thousands suffered.

I really don't care if he was trying to fulfill this prophecy(which he may not actually have anything to do with). His actions so far have only yielded in destruction. Until GRRM or TWOW comes out and confirms Rhaegar's actions did good, then I'm going to argue that his actions were reckless, stupid, vain, and delusional.

Trying to fulfill some prophecy does not give Rhaegar a free pass or apology for the irresponsibility(imo) he displayed.

And before anyone says it, my opinions are subject to change seeing how things turn out.

[Reek Da Villain]

I don't take kindly to folks slandering my boy Rhaegar's good name!

[joluoto]

I don't take kindly to folks slandering my boy Rhaegar's good name!

What good name?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

:bowdown: Please, share the Compendium of your dreams! :bowdown:

Methinks that better not, I would need a category only for them.

[houseHB]

Because look what happened at the Trident