most socially liberal/conservative factions/houses by modern standards

[BitsOfBrains]

The Mormonts seem pretty liberal.

The women and men are equals more or less, girls can have there own mates (even bears if they want), and the rich aren't that much better off than everyone else.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Is Balon Greyjoy a "conservative" due to his nostalgia for the Old Way, or a "liberal" for his desire to see his daughter succeed him?

Certainly a conservative, for the above reasons. The Ironborn aren't anti-female per se, so much as anti-weakness: if female Ironborn conform to the expected social norms, the likes of Asha have far greater ability to rule their own life than, say, Cersei.

[A Duke]

Certainly a conservative, for the above reasons. The Ironborn aren't anti-female per se, so much as anti-weakness: if female Ironborn conform to the expected social norms, the likes of Asha have far greater ability to rule their own life than, say, Cersei.

I am not sure, did we ever see any other woman bar Asha as a fighter? I don't seem to recall any.

Did we hear of any woman bar her in the line of succession of any house? I remember none such either (there was Balons wife (?) but she was ignored in reality).

I can't seem to recall any women even among the drowned god's followers...

Is Asha the norm? I remember differently (though I could be wrong, I can't say I paid too much attention to this). It's not fair to judge a society on the liberties one woman has.

[grand old duke of stark]

Martells are very liberal. Open-minded about extramarital sex and bastardy, allowing women to make their own way, allowing women to inherit before younger brothers, accommodating three ethnicities.

Ironborn/Greyjoy have but seldom use the institution of Kingsmoot. Also, it seems Asha has a reasonable chance to inherit.

Lannisters (at least under Tywin) and Targaryens are most socially conservative. Tywin is totally patriarchal and allows his children and retainers little freedom. Targaryens not only are autocratic but also freequently marry each other, which keeps other houses out and denies them more opportunities of power. And it takes a dearth of male near-relatives before a female can inherit.

Starks under Ned are fairly liberal. He allows his children a fair amount of leeway, gives positions to talented people (meritocracy), accepts worship decisions for old or new gods, and raises a 'bastard' as a family member. His treatment of Theon also probably showed his open-mindedness.

Other houses are probably varying degrees of conservative, but we don't know much about most of them so it's hard to say.

[Sullen]

I am not sure, did we ever see any other woman bar Asha as a fighter? I don't seem to recall any.

During Asha's fight against Stannis's forces, she referred to as "X's Daughter" if I recall correctly.

EDIT: Hagen's Daughter.

[Martini Sigil]

The Martells and Dorne in general are probably most liberal.

The Lannisters (namely Tywin) are probably most conservative.

agreed on both counts

[Gurkhal]

As a lot of other posters have writtenI think that this thread is extremely useless to be honest as everyone will argue that their favorites are liberal, contrary to the fact that they are happy to uphold and support a hereditary feudal social system, while claiming that the the characters they dislike are conservatives. With some notable exceptions.

[David Selig]

As a lot of other posters have writtenI think that this thread is extremely useless to be honest as everyone will argue that their favorites are liberal, contrary to the fact that they are happy to uphold and support a hereditary feudal social system, while claiming that the the characters they dislike are conservatives. With some notable exceptions.

I'd be the exception then. Catelyn is all about family and duty, she's the most religious PoV character and follows the religion of the Westeros establishment, so by modern standards as I understand them, she's definitely conservative.

[Free Northman]

The Starks are obviously the most conservative from a respect for traditions and cultural heritage perspective. They hold fast to traditions that go back 8000 years, after all. Also from a religious perspective, where Eddard is actually quite devout to his religious traditions, as Jon Snow is too.

They also have the most traditional type of family setup, which again is a conservative characteristic.

I really cannot comment on economic liberalism versus economic conservatism, as it doesn't really apply in this context.

[Sansa_Stark]

I'd be the exception then. Catelyn is all about family and duty, she's the most religious PoV character and follows the religion of the Westeros establishment, so by modern standards as I understand them, she's definitely conservative.

Most religious?

Even more than Vic, Damphair, and Mel?

[Sansa_Stark]

The Starks are obviously the most conservative from a respect for traditions and cultural heritage perspective. They hold fast to traditions that go back 8000 years, after all. Also from a religious perspective, where Eddard is actually quite devout to his religious traditions, as Jon Snow is too.

They also have the most traditional type of family setup, which again is a conservative characteristic.

I really cannot comment on economic liberalism versus economic conservatism, as it doesn't really apply in this context.

those are some big words in that last sentence

what does it even mean?

[TepidHands]

As a lot of other posters have writtenI think that this thread is extremely useless to be honest as everyone will argue that their favorites are liberal, contrary to the fact that they are happy to uphold and support a hereditary feudal social system, while claiming that the the characters they dislike are conservatives. With some notable exceptions.

Just so.

This Manichean liberal = good, conservative = bad stuff is simplistic at best. At worst it's some kind of trolling. Either way, it's impossible to sort a fictional Medieval-esque universe by 21st century real-world political labels. A pox on all your houses.

[The Marquis de Leech]

The Starks are obviously the most conservative from a respect for traditions and cultural heritage perspective. They hold fast to traditions that go back 8000 years, after all. Also from a religious perspective, where Eddard is actually quite devout to his religious traditions, as Jon Snow is too.

They also have the most traditional type of family setup, which again is a conservative characteristic.

I really cannot comment on economic liberalism versus economic conservatism, as it doesn't really apply in this context.

Eddard as a ruler is indeed incredibly conservative: he has an incredible respect for tradition, right down to his execution method. Yes, he cares about the smallfolk, but that's old-fashioned noblisse oblige at work: he's paternal, not progressive. Jon's a tad different: he's willing to go outside the box in dealing with the Wildings, which angers Marsh and company.

Not sure what you men by "most traditional type of family set up".

[The Marquis de Leech]

Just so.

This Manichean liberal = good, conservative = bad stuff is simplistic at best. At worst it's some kind of trolling. Either way, it's impossible to sort a fictional Medieval-esque universe by 21st century real-world political labels. A pox on all your houses.

Um, point out to me a single post that says "Character X is evil, so must be conservative".

[drstrangelove]

The starks embodied conservative values to the t.

[ejhawman]

The Greyjoys being so "conservative" makes little sense.

The Greyjoy rebellions are all populist in nature, every captain is King on the Iron Isles, and they have the smallest disparity between citizen classes, it seems.

Not to mention that Asha and other women are allowed to fight, or that Asha was considered heir by a considerable amount of the Lords.

The Kingsmoot is also the closest thing to a democratic election we've seen in the series so far... with the exception of the Volanteen elections, IIRC.

I'm sure some conservatives would argue they are the ultimate liberals: pirates, Vikings, rape-pillage-and-plunder, taking from those who have worked to make stuff, etc. Their very motto: "We do not sow" - or do any productive work if they can help it.

To me, it's more pre-political than anything corresponding to modern definitions.

[CallmeLordofLight]

People seem to put a lot of importance on the sexuality thing, it's really not a big deal in the books or in real life.

None of the Houses in ASOIAF are liberal in the sense that all they do is to conserve their status and get more power. Only the BWB are in favour of the people, the smallfolk and the poor. If there is anything forward thinking in ASOIAF is that movement.

[Ser Greg of House House]

This thread just proves how useless the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are when used outside of the context of modern (American) politics

This. And I'd stress north american politics.

[Ser Greg of House House]

People seem to put a lot of importance on the sexuality thing, it's really not a big deal in the books or in real life.

None of the Houses in ASOIAF are liberal in the sense that all they do is to conserve their status and get more power. Only the BWB are in favour of the people, the smallfolk and the poor. If there is anything forward thinking in ASOIAF is that movement.

Well, I disagree. Sexuality has a growing importance in left politics, even here in Brazil, where "material" demands are more important than in rich countries.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I'll just add the obligatory nitpick that outside the US there is a significant difference between liberal and left. Liberals are free-market, socially tolerant types who obsess about individual autonomy and property rights, whereas leftists are the ones who favour a more active redistribution of wealth and power.

When Americans talk about small government ideology being conservative, that same ideology is considered liberal elsewhere.