US Politics: all assertions sourced, or your subsidy returned

[Lightning Lord]

Tell you how it works. Why do you get health insurance? Either to pay for already known health problems (then it isn't insurance but a health plan) or for unexpected catastrophic events (in which case it's to avoid bankruptcy). In the event an otherwise healthy twenty something contracts high blood pressure or diabetes they'll want option number one, if they get hit by a car or accidentally OD on booze they'll want two. Under EMTALA everyone is guaranteed emergency treatment so the risk when suffering a catastrophic injury is not refusal of treatment because you have no insurance but the enormous medical bill at the end of it. If I was a young person with no assets I'd just declare personal bankruptcy and they hospital can take 100% of nothing. The pros and cons for young people thinking of buying into Obamacare, pros- buying really expensive health cover, cons- having a huge chunk of your disposable income taken from you, having to declare bankruptcy in the event of suffering a cat injury, paying a small avoidable fine.

Okay...none of that addresses the points I made, but thank you for the response, I guess? You did (intentionally?) support my second point - conservatives hate the ACA and are unwilling to consider that it might not be terrible.

As I said, I get the point. There is absolutely no way you are ever going to admit that the ACA is anything other than a horrible, terrible, no-good, very bad thing. I honestly don't know why you use so much of your free time posting that here, over and over again. Don't you own your own business? Surely you have better uses for your time than finding new ways to say "I really don't like this bit of legislation"?

Oh, and since you love to post anecdotes of ACA horror stories, I'll offer up my own... I am one of the healthy, young people who is going to have to hand over a huge chunk of my disposable income at gunpoint or whatever. I'm one of those who is going to have to pay more for something I probably won't use. And I am okay with it...because even though I have to pay more than I was going to, I am still one of the lucky people to whom life didn't bestow a swift kick in the face. Yup, this is how I sleep at night: Knowing that while my tax dollars go to fund shitty wars that I never wanted and shitty bank bailouts and corporate tax relief, they also go to things like making sure poor people and young people and poor young people can get a physical, a vaccination, or a cancer screening.

[Commodore]

Oh, and since you love to post anecdotes of ACA horror stories, I'll offer up my own... I am one of the healthy, young people who is going to have to hand over a huge chunk of my disposable income at gunpoint or whatever. I'm one of those who is going to have to pay more for something I probably won't use. And I am okay with it...because even though I have to pay more than I was going to, I am still one of the lucky people to whom life didn't bestow a swift kick in the face. Yup, this is how I sleep at night: Knowing that while my tax dollars go to fund shitty wars that I never wanted and shitty bank bailouts and corporate tax relief, they also go to things like making sure poor people and young people and poor young people can get a physical, a vaccination, or a cancer screening.

That's not how the law was sold. Premiums will go down by $2500 they said. You can keep your plan, they said. You can keep your doctor, they said.

They did not say, "You should be grateful for your good fortune and pay a little more". That would have killed the bill.

At some point a politician is going to get frustrated and say something stupid like "now you know what it's like not to have health insurance". You can sense the growing exasperation.

[awesome possum]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/04/as-obama-hosts-youth-summit-poll-shows-young-people-skeptical-obamacare/

Is like a slow moving tsunami of shit.

Seriously, does anyone else hear an echo in here?

You can sense the growing exasperation.

From where? If you listen exclusively to rightwing radio, read rightwing websites and watch rightwing television, which it's pretty obvious you and Mr. Echo do, then sure, there's "growing exasperation" because hey, Mr. Hannity can't be wrong can he? But to the rest of the country the growing exasperation is with you and your moronic ilk. It's the same type of exasperation one might feel with a toddler who is sitting in a corner throwing a tantrum, holding his breath until he turns blue and then screaming bloody murder when no one rushes to give him CPR. Except you're grown goddamn men and women so the toddler tantrums are beyond old.

Grow the fuck up.

[Hereward]

For some unknown reason, I am reminded of a wonderful phrase from The Economist last month: Party X's voters "tend to be at the lower end of the informational spectrum".

[Guy Kilmore]

For some unknown reason, I am reminded of a wonderful phrase from The Economist last month: Party X's voters "tend to be at the lower end of the informational spectrum".

That is why I always vote for Party Y.

[Borsabil]

Seriously, does anyone else hear an echo in here?

From where? If you listen exclusively to rightwing radio, read rightwing websites and watch rightwing television, which it's pretty obvious you and Mr. Echo do, then sure, there's "growing exasperation" because hey, Mr. Hannity can't be wrong can he? But to the rest of the country the growing exasperation is with you and your moronic ilk. It's the same type of exasperation one might feel with a toddler who is sitting in a corner throwing a tantrum, holding his breath until he turns blue and then screaming bloody murder when no one rushes to give him CPR. Except you're grown goddamn men and women so the toddler tantrums are beyond old.

Grow the fuck up.

From the deep blue shores of Kalifornia

http://www.news10.net/news/article/264664/2/Poll-Obamas-Calif-approval-rating-hits-2-year-low

"SACRAMENTO (AP) - A new Field Poll finds that California voters increasingly disapprove of President Barack Obama's job performance while fewer than half support his handling of health care.

The poll released Tuesday shows that 51 percent of registered voters approve of the job Obama is doing, the lowest mark in two years.

At the same, 43 percent disapprove, up 8 percentage points since Field's last survey in July. Meanwhile, just 43 percent approve of his handling of health care, while half disapprove. Obama's approval ratings are higher on the economy and foreign policy."

Over half of Cali citizens are full blown wing nuts....who would have thunk it???

[Borsabil]

Okay...none of that addresses the points I made, but thank you for the response, I guess? You did (intentionally?) support my second point - conservatives hate the ACA and are unwilling to consider that it might not be terrible.

As I said, I get the point. There is absolutely no way you are ever going to admit that the ACA is anything other than a horrible, terrible, no-good, very bad thing. I honestly don't know why you use so much of your free time posting that here, over and over again. Don't you own your own business? Surely you have better uses for your time than finding new ways to say "I really don't like this bit of legislation"?

Oh, and since you love to post anecdotes of ACA horror stories, I'll offer up my own... I am one of the healthy, young people who is going to have to hand over a huge chunk of my disposable income at gunpoint or whatever. I'm one of those who is going to have to pay more for something I probably won't use. And I am okay with it...because even though I have to pay more than I was going to, I am still one of the lucky people to whom life didn't bestow a swift kick in the face. Yup, this is how I sleep at night: Knowing that while my tax dollars go to fund shitty wars that I never wanted and shitty bank bailouts and corporate tax relief, they also go to things like making sure poor people and young people and poor young people can get a physical, a vaccination, or a cancer screening.

You answer a general point regarding the willingness of young people to pony up for a voluntary tax by stating that you personally will happily pay? Good for you, now do you think the majority of young folk have either your disposable income and/or leftist ideals?

[awesome possum]

From the deep blue shores of Kalifornia

http://www.news10.net/news/article/264664/2/Poll-Obamas-Calif-approval-rating-hits-2-year-low

"SACRAMENTO (AP) - A new Field Poll finds that California voters increasingly disapprove of President Barack Obama's job performance while fewer than half support his handling of health care.

The poll released Tuesday shows that 51 percent of registered voters approve of the job Obama is doing, the lowest mark in two years.

At the same, 43 percent disapprove, up 8 percentage points since Field's last survey in July. Meanwhile, just 43 percent approve of his handling of health care, while half disapprove. Obama's approval ratings are higher on the economy and foreign policy."

Over half of Cali citizens are full blown wing nuts....who would have thunk it???

That doesn't say what you want it to say. They disapprove of his handling of health care and no one will disagree that the rollout was botched. It doesn't say anything about their actual feelings of the ACA.

But hey, keep beating that drum. I find it amusing how insistent and persistent you are about making an ass of yourself.

[Borsabil]

That doesn't say what you want it to say. They disapprove of his handling of health care and no one will disagree that the rollout was botched. It doesn't say anything about their actual feelings of the ACA.

But hey, keep beating that drum. I find it amusing how insistent and persistent you are about making an ass of yourself.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/192018-poll-obamas-approval-rating-hits-record-low-with-young-voters

"Poll: Millennials turning against ObamaCare

Young voters are turning against President Obama and his signature healthcare law, according to a new poll from Harvard University's Institute of Politics.

Obama's approval rating has plunged to 41 percent with voters aged 18-29, down from 52 percent the last time Harvard polled the group. While 56 percent in the poll say they backed Obama last year, just 46 percent say they would do so again.

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"We're now seeing a sea change among this critical demographic," says Harvard Institute of Politics Director Trey Grayson. "The president has experienced a double-digit drop in his approval rating among millennials over the last seven months.

ObamaCare is also unpopular with the crucial voting bloc: 57 percent disapprove of the law, while 38 percent approve.

"You can see that there are very few aspects of the healthcare initiative that they approve of. They believe that quality will decrease and prices will increase," says Harvard Institute of Politics Polling Director John Della Volpe.

The poll provides a worrying data point for both parties. While 33 percent of voters in the poll identify as Democrats, a dip from earlier polling of the demographic group, just 24 percent identify as Republicans."

Dem voting, previously Brobama lovin twenty somethings were closet wing nuts all along.....who would have thunk it??

[awesome possum]

And what's your point? It's still the law and it's not going anywhere, regardless of how well the countless millions the GOP has spent trying to shit on it. Your constant pointless baaa'ing in this thread does nothing but 1) point out what a mindless troll you are and 2) shows you are also a pretty bad sore loser.

[Larry of the Lawn]

From the deep blue shores of Kalifornia

http://www.news10.net/news/article/264664/2/Poll-Obamas-Calif-approval-rating-hits-2-year-low

"SACRAMENTO (AP) - A new Field Poll finds that California voters increasingly disapprove of President Barack Obama's job performance while fewer than half support his handling of health care.

The poll released Tuesday shows that 51 percent of registered voters approve of the job Obama is doing, the lowest mark in two years.

At the same, 43 percent disapprove, up 8 percentage points since Field's last survey in July. Meanwhile, just 43 percent approve of his handling of health care, while half disapprove. Obama's approval ratings are higher on the economy and foreign policy."

Over half of Cali citizens are full blown wing nuts....who would have thunk it???

Some of those voters that don't approve now, don't approve because he hasn't held the line enough the right. I don't know that I'd say I 'support' the ACA on a survey, because I would have preferred single payer or at least a public option. Obama should have come out swinging, but it's just not in him. He's a centrist at the end of the day. Also would have liked to see him take less of a corporate coddling approach Wall Street, big Pharma, and Monsanto. But I'd still take him any day over McCain or Romney. I didn't vote for Obama the second time around (I trusted Nate Silver), but in ahypothetical close election I would.

I don't think those numbers mean much. ETA: The rollout has been embarassing but the Obamacare everyone seems to reacting to that. Time will tell.

[Borsabil]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-approval-rating-drops-obamacare-opposition-article-1.1523038

"President Obama's approval ratings drops amid opposition to Obamacare

WASHINGTON — President Obama’s approval ratings are so sickly that Mitt Romney could beat him right now, a new poll has found.

Obamacare is the heart of the problem, with opposition to the Affordable Care Act at a new high, 57%, according to the Washington Post-ABC News poll released Tuesday."

[awesome possum]

*yawn*

[Inigima]

I don't think it is very surprising that people aren't big on a program whose rollout was fucked up this badly. Does anyone?

[Ormond]

This 'Klayman' character has been engaged for quite a while in what I consider to be mail fraud: sending large numbers of fliers making insane claims and demanding money from the recipients for the 'cause'...99% of which, I strongly suspect ends up in a very few pockets.

Maybe a con artist who believes his own con?

Why are you putting his name in quotes? I can assure you that it is his original real name. As I mentioned once before, I lived in the same dorm with Larry Klayman when I was an undergraduate at Duke University. We graduated the same year.

I wasn't close friends with him back then, but there was certainly no indication when he was 21 that he would turn into the crazy fanatic he is today. I do not think he is a con man, but that he sincerely believes his ideas and probably could be diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder. It is really sad for me to have someone I know personally end up like this.

[Merentha]

Tell you how it works. Why do you get health insurance? Either to pay for already known health problems (then it isn't insurance but a health plan) or for unexpected catastrophic events (in which case it's to avoid bankruptcy). In the event an otherwise healthy twenty something contracts high blood pressure or diabetes they'll want option number one, if they get hit by a car or accidentally OD on booze they'll want two. Under EMTALA everyone is guaranteed emergency treatment so the risk when suffering a catastrophic injury is not refusal of treatment because you have no insurance but the enormous medical bill at the end of it. If I was a young person with no assets I'd just declare personal bankruptcy and they hospital can take 100% of nothing. The pros and cons for young people thinking of buying into Obamacare, pros- buying really expensive health cover, cons- having a huge chunk of your disposable income taken from you, having to declare bankruptcy in the event of suffering a cat injury, paying a small avoidable fine.

Weren't you just complaining about the ballooning costs of healthcare? Do you think the current situation where hospitals have to treat people for free has a connection to the rising healthcare costs for people they don't have to treat? We could repeal EMTALA, I suppose, but if that's what you're arguing for, you might as well come out and say it.

[TerraPrime]

It strikes me as rather tragic, in the Greek classical tragedy sense, that someone who ostensibly champions personal responsbilites and freedom would advocate a scenario where the way to pay for required emergency care is to declare bankruptcy to get out of having to meet the finanical burden one incurs legitimately.

[Borsabil]

Weren't you just complaining about the ballooning costs of healthcare? Do you think the current situation where hospitals have to treat people for free has a connection to the rising healthcare costs for people they don't have to treat? We could repeal EMTALA, I suppose, but if that's what you're arguing for, you might as well come out and say it.

I would repeal EMTALA in a heart beat. I was attempting to see the world from the eyes of a typical twenty something. The risk reward equation that governs the decision to spend a small amount of disposable income on partying and i gadgets or to donate into a health scheme so sick old farts can get cheaper cover. It's been stated many times that younger people should get insurance due to the risk of catastrophic injury. I merely pointed out the fallacy in this argument. Everyone will get emergency health care, under EMTALA hospitals are obligated to provide it, that includes btw delivery and aftercare for expectant moms (in case of broken condoms during spring break). So what youngsters are really risking is bankruptcy, and as most young folks have nothing much in the way of assets that really isnt much of a risk at all. You can't realistically threaten someone with bankruptcy if they have nothing to take.

[TrackerNeil]

It's been stated many times that younger people should get insurance due to the risk of catastrophic injury. I merely pointed out the fallacy in this argument. Everyone will get emergency health care, under EMTALA hospitals are obligated to provide it, that includes btw delivery and aftercare for expectant moms (in case of broken condoms during spring break).

So are you advocating that uninsured young people who, say, break a leg, use EMTALA to get the bone set and then pass on the cost to the insured and taxpayers? Because that's what would happen, you know.

Who'da thought we'd see a conservative who encourages folks to free-ride on a system?

[DanteGabriel]

Bankruptcy isn't just about losing what you have, it's about fucking your credit rating for years to come. Maybe that 20-something you give so little credit to doesn't have much to lose, but he/she may want to apply for a loan some time in the next 7 years.

Seriously, the positions you are advocating are looney tunes. They don't work as sound fiscal policy and they sure as shit don't work on the "not being a shitty human being" level.