US Politics: all assertions sourced, or your subsidy returned

[Merentha]

I would repeal EMTALA in a heart beat. I was attempting to see the world from the eyes of a typical twenty something. The risk reward equation that governs the decision to spend a small amount of disposable income on partying and i gadgets or to donate into a health scheme so sick old farts can get cheaper cover

Well, I don't think we have enough commonality to even begin to argue over healthcare funding when you think that hospitals should be able to turn people in emergency situations away for lack of funds. Do you pay before, or after I start CPR? I know, I'll just wait to fluid resuscitate you until you can tell me your credit card number. Oh, you went unconscious? Too bad, we're chucking you out on the street. Good luck!

Healthcare should not be a business. The business model has failed, as exemplified by our own system.

[Paladin of Ice]

So what youngsters are really risking is bankruptcy, and as most young folks have nothing much in the way of assets that really isnt much of a risk at all.

As long as you don't intend to apply for a credit card, car loan, or mortgage for the next 7-10 years, and then don't mind rebuilding your credit from scratch afterward, sure.

[Borsabil]

You just love cherry picking those poll results, don't you?

From a poll of Californians by the Public Policy Institute of California:

"Q: As you may know, the 2010 health care law requires nearly all Americans to have health insurance by 2014 or else pay a fine. Do you think you will obtain health insurance in 2014, or do you think you will remain uninsured?

AMONG THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE

Obtain Insurance: 66%

Remain Uninsured: 24%

Don't Know: 11%"

(Sorry, couldn't cut and paste on that one)

Another poll in California by the same group:

Young invincibles more likely to sign up for health insurance.

The question is why are younger, healthier people more likely to sign up when they need the insurance less. The possible answer:

So, if more young invincibles are signing up because it's a better deal for them, then that will end up driving overall premiums down, thus drawing in the older crowd.

It doesn't matter one shit whether people get warm fuzzies when they think about the law or not...what matters is are they going to sign up. And it appears more and more that the answer is yes.

Cherry picking poll results? I did a quick google search- public opinion on Obama care. All from recognized and respected polling outfits. I have no idea what the heck the 'Public Institute of California' is, (well done you for managing to track that down) but as with all polling skew the demographics to one group over another and you'll get the result you're after. The point is not how many uninsured will end up signing up, it's how many healthy and younger folks will sign up and PAY real money into the system to keep it viable. Most of the discussion around the 'success' of the state exchanges, particularly Cali, is heralding the hundreds of thousands of new Medicaid enrollees, which obviously is not brining revenue into the system.

[Borsabil]

So are you advocating that uninsured young people who, say, break a leg, use EMTALA to get the bone set and then pass on the cost to the insured and taxpayers? Because that's what would happen, you know.

Who'da thought we'd see a conservative who encourages folks to free-ride on a system?

I'm not sure what gets me the most, the breath taking hypocrisy or the shere chutzpah.

Young, otherwise healthy people should be able to buy very cheap, as in a few dollars a week, catastrophic coverage. But it's precisely due to people like you that this option is no longer available to them. Instead they are being forced to buy very expensive health cover that the vast majority will see no benefit from (due to massive co-pays and coverage for ailments that they cannot and will not suffer from) and the fact that many of them simply cannot afford it and are being driven out of the market.

[Borsabil]

As long as you don't intend to apply for a credit card, car loan, or mortgage for the next 7-10 years, and then don't mind rebuilding your credit from scratch afterward, sure.

Yeah I know it sucks. Do you donate your entire disposable income to the government or do you risk personal bankruptcy in the unlikely event you're in an auto accident? Thems the choices.

[awesome possum]

In case anyone forgot how out of touch today's GOP is, the National Republican Congressional Committee has started holding courses for candidates on how to talk to women. I'm just sort of guessing it's on how to talk to women without coming across as misogynistic douchenozzles.

Coming in 2014, the GOP faces 10 races that pit male incumbents against female Democratic Party challengers, Politico reported. And more could crop in the coming months.

...

“Let me put it this way, some of these guys have a lot to learn,” said one Republican staffer who was at the strategy session in Mr. Boehner’s office, Politico reported.

[The Undead Martyr]

I'm not sure what gets me the most, the breath taking hypocrisy or the shere chutzpah.

Young, otherwise healthy people should be able to buy very cheap, as in a few dollars a week, catastrophic coverage. But it's precisely due to people like you that this option is no longer available to them. Instead they are being forced to buy very expensive health cover that the vast majority will see no benefit from (due to massive co-pays and coverage for ailments that they cannot and will not suffer from) and the fact that many of them simply cannot afford it and are being driven out of the market.

Speak for your own demographic, please; or are you college age? As far as health care goes: someone a year older than me died of cancer last year, a friend from high school got in a car accident, it seems like at least half the football team has been on crutches at one point or another, I myself have Aspergers (damn pharma) and the Autism Spectrum is quite common; and then there are glasses... to say that "young people will never need health care" is specious. And I wonder: why, exactly, are we so poor? Well, the "free market" system we have is a big part of that, after all. We discussed this in my history class, vis a vis globalization: he postulated that a reason that my generation isn't as politically active as, say, the 80s, is because we're all afraid of losing the few opportunities (read- jobs) we have, so we "hunker down" and stay conservative (not politically- especially in social issues) which I think speaks to the dysfunction of our system.

[The Undead Martyr]

Yeah I know it sucks. Do you donate your entire disposable income to the government or do you risk personal bankruptcy in the unlikely event you're in an auto accident? Thems the choices.

Or we could go single payer, or use a portion of our future disposable income along with a much bigger portion (than ~15% capital gains rate) of the Upper 1%'s disposable income, to fund a single payer system and eliminate the dilemma entirely- you know, like every other 1st world country does. Blasted baby boomers are screwing us over, what with their finance capital and exorbitant political clout...

[TrackerNeil]

I'm not sure what gets me the most, the breath taking hypocrisy or the shere chutzpah.

Young, otherwise healthy people should be able to buy very cheap, as in a few dollars a week, catastrophic coverage.

I think my chutzpah is "sheer" and my hypocrisy "breathtaking", but OK.

And who the hell is offering catastrophic coverage for "a few dollars a week", I'd like to know.

[Borsabil]

The point, which again you so conveniently ignore, is that it doesn't matter how people feel about Obamacare. The only thing that matters is if they'll sign up for it. Both polls indicated they would sign up for it, regardless of if they like it or not.

And that's what the 2nd poll was about, which said that so-called young invincibles were MORE likely to sign up for Obamacare.

And re: the bolded part...really? Holy shit, if that's what you think then you don't even understand the law you're trying to discuss. Medicaid expansion and the exchanges are two different things! What the hell don't you understand about that?

When people sign up they're either offered a policy through the exchange or they're enrolled into Medicaid if they qualify. Of the tens of thousands of uninsured signed up in Cali, for example, some 90% are new Medicaid clients, this is being heralded as a massive success amongst leftist commentators. How is this successful state roll out brining revenue into the system? It isn't.

And I mentioned already, I quoted nationally recognized polling outfits whose polling stated the diametric opposite of what the 'San Fransisco based Public Institute of California' survey did.

[awesome possum]

Anyone else notice the only time this guy sites sources for numbers he claims as fact, it's to opinion polls?

[Borsabil]

I think my chutzpah is "sheer" and my hypocrisy "breathtaking", but OK.

And who the hell is offering catastrophic coverage for "a few dollars a week", I'd like to know.

OMG I made a typo...

Anyway funney u shud ask

http://www.inquisitr.com/1039913/obamacare-cancels-historically-black-colleges-health-insurance-video/

"

Students at the historically black college used to pay $54 per semester for coverage. Because of Obamacare, a.k.a. the Affordable Care Act, the insurance was apparently scheduled to jump to an unaffordable $1900 per year as a result of regulations and heightened coverage mandates from the US Health and Human Services Department."

[Borsabil]

Anyone else notice the only time this guy sites sources for numbers he claims as fact, it's to opinion polls?

Funny how a dude who tried to slap down another poster by claiming reported public disgust at Obamacare was all the figment of a few wing nut radio shock jock's imagination attempts to change the subject when presented with evidence proving the opposite :)

[Merentha]

Funny how a dude who tried to slap down another poster by claiming reported public disgust at Obamacare was all the figment of a few wing nut radio shock jock's imagination attempts to change the subject when presented with evidence proving the opposite :)

Speaking of changing the subject, lets go back to how you literally think people should die in the street if they can't afford emergency medical care. You want to repeal EMTALA. Explain how your system would work for emergency response if you have to pay fee-for-service in the ER prior to receiving care, and how that wouldn't utterly destroy healthcare for any but the wealthiest in our country?

[TerraPrime]

I haven't seen these "a few dollars a week" type plans, so I can't say if even they do anything at all that can be qualified as "catastrophic" insurance.

But let's look at some numbers that we do have.

For a 24 year old non-smoker who lives in Chicago with an adjusted gross income of $25,000/yr, the healthcare.gov site gives:

1 - Catastrophic plan for $113/mo

2 - Bronze plan for $143/mo, after subsidy

3 - Silver plan for $186/mo, after subsidy

This is what the summary for the Catastrophy plan looks like:

Deductibles (per year):

Medical deductible (family total) $12,700

Medical deductible (per individual) $6,350

Prescription drug deductible (family total) Included in Medical

Prescription drug deductible (per individual) Included in Medical

Out-of-pocket maximum (per year):

Health care out-of-pocket maximum (family total) $12,700

Health care out-of-pocket maximum (per individual) $6,350

Prescription drug out-of-pocket maximum (family total) Included in Medical

Prescription drug out-of-pocket maximum (per individual) Included in Medical

Copayments/Coinsurance:

Primary doctor $25

Specialist doctor No Charge after Deductible

Inpatient doctor No Charge after Deductible

In-Patient facility No Charge after deductible

Emergency room No Charge after Deductible

Generic prescription No Charge after Deductible

Preferred brand prescription No Charge after Deductible

Non-preferred brand prescription No Charge after Deductible

Specialty prescription No Charge after Deductible

I'd like Borsabil to link us to similar data on these "a few dollars a week" plan for catastrophy coverage. I suspect that if such plans exist, they'd be utter crap with practically no coverage, much like the plan in the story I linked to before.

[TrackerNeil]

OMG I made a typo...

Anyway funney u shud ask

http://www.inquisitr.com/1039913/obamacare-cancels-historically-black-colleges-health-insurance-video/

"

Students at the historically black college used to pay $54 per semester for coverage. Because of Obamacare, a.k.a. the Affordable Care Act, the insurance was apparently scheduled to jump to an unaffordable $1900 per year as a result of regulations and heightened coverage mandates from the US Health and Human Services Department."

So this coverage was available only to students of that college, yes? Then it was a speciality policy. Can you back up your assertion that catastophic coverage for "a few dollars a week" was available to every American who wanted it?

[Merentha]

So this coverage was available only to students of that college, yes? Then it was a speciality policy. Can you back up your assertion that catastophic coverage for "a few dollars a week" was available to every American who wanted it?

Also potentially subsidized by the school drawing extra money from tuition then "offering a great benefit" to students to help draw them there.

[awesome possum]

Funny how a dude who tried to slap down another poster by claiming reported public disgust at Obamacare was all the figment of a few wing nut radio shock jock's imagination attempts to change the subject when presented with evidence proving the opposite :)

What evidence did you by chance provide? That, what was it, 57% in one state aren't fans of the law after a 6 year GOP crusade to taint it as ungodly socialistic evil? Oh my goodness yes, the youth of the country is revolting!

I believe TGU summed you up the best in one word: uninformed. Whether it's all an act or you are actually this way, well, who cares? I just enjoy you making yourself look foolish. Again.

[TerraPrime]

So this coverage was available only to students of that college, yes? Then it was a speciality policy. Can you back up your assertion that catastophic coverage for "a few dollars a week" was available to every American who wanted it?

Well, he didn't say all Americans. Just the healthy and young.

[Borsabil]

So this coverage was available only to students of that college, yes? Then it was a speciality policy. Can you back up your assertion that catastophic coverage for "a few dollars a week" was available to every American who wanted it?

They don't appear to be a particularly wealthy school. More likely they pooled and offered the kids a basic cat plan. Hold on a sec isn't that how the ACA is supposed to work? And didn't the Pres say if you were happy with your plan you could keep it? Obviously he wasn't referring to those kids. And the takeaway here? Middle class black college students, the number who can pony up two grand a year for Brobmacare? Not many.

I haven't seen these "a few dollars a week" type plans, so I can't say if even they do anything at all that can be qualified as "catastrophic" insurance.But let's look at some numbers that we do have.For a 24 year old non-smoker who lives in Chicago with an adjusted gross income of $25,000/yr, the healthcare.gov site gives:1 - Catastrophic plan for $113/mo2 - Bronze plan for $143/mo, after subsidy3 - Silver plan for $186/mo, after subsidyThis is what the summary for the Catastrophy plan looks like:I'd like Borsabil to link us to similar data on these "a few dollars a week" plan for catastrophy coverage. I suspect that if such plans exist, they'd be utter crap with practically no coverage, much like the plan in the story I linked to before.

Yeah operant word being subsidy. What Obamacare needs to make it work is lots of young, healthy individuals paying the full whack to subsidize the rest. If that don't happen the whole house of cards collapses. You know this already.