Jaxom 1974 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Its possible that, should they break up, that Amy is on the verge of sleeping with someone else, but Sheldon stops it to get her back...neither of them is quite the same as when she got all squishy for Zack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So this episode had one of those play up the quirks big time and exagerate for laughs feelings, but I am continually intrigued by Amy's character growth. Between Burt and "Rajward" - "Sometimes I don't think even Sheldon knows you are in a realationship." Amy now has another realization that will needle her and grow into a bigger irritation the more she lets the problem stay unresolved. That being, unless she's tugging Sheldon along with her, she shows no evidence of being in a relationship, at work, or anywhere. I really don't think the relationship between Amy and Sheldon will work out. Amy began as a female Sheldon, though she was originally more emotionless and robotic, while Sheldon even with his obsessiveness and genius superiority complex always had a puppyish quality since season 1. Speaking of that, this is the second time this season it is just laid out plain that Sheldon is Leonard's dog. The first time being when Leonard explains to Dr. Proton why he sticks with Sheldon, and now this episode. And as Leonard and Penny's relationship evolves Sheldon becomes more and more Leonard and Penny's dog. It may have been played over-the-top for wide range laughs, but it comprises why I don't think the Shamy thing will work, and why I'd feel uncomfortable if it did. As the series progresses, each episode Amy's character grows, and this season that growth seems to have become exponential. Seeing Amy give back at Raj as good as she got was pure awesomeness. Amy has become less Amy Farah Fowler, and more Amy Blossom Russo, meaning after spending the years she should have been maturing from childhood to adulthood, she became stuck in her robot mode. Upon being initiated into "the group" her robtotic personality melted, but left her maturity-wise in a lot of ways at the same level as the Blossom character in that series. Though, again, Amy is catching up rapidly, on more of a crash course in human maturity.. She's surpassed Sheldon which is why I feel having the relationship go much farther would be like watching a person try to have an intimate human relationship with a dog, just...ick :stillsick: Also, last time Sheldon was on vacation he spent it with Amy at her work. This time he just wanted to follow Leonard and Penny around. I think Sheldon is feeling the gap grow between him and Amy, and that's set off an instinct to bond himself even closer to Leonard and Penny up to even bringing up it's the three of them in the relationship with Sheldon being the child/dog/person in need of being considered in their custody. Again, this angle has been played up obtusely for laughs, but it is a real aspect of the Leonard-Penny-Sheldon dynamic. With Amy a solid member of the group now, I think Sheldon feels secure in letting her take place on the same level as Howard, Bernadette, and Raj, while he turns to Leonard and Penny as his primary family. Of course, Sheldon could go through his own emotional maturity growth spurt and even things up with Amy's level, but I feel writing his character to do that would have a forced feeling, whereas with Amy, mainly because she started to change so quickly after we got to know her, it just feels more natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Also, last time Sheldon was on vacation he spent it with Amy at her work. This time he just wanted to follow Leonard and Penny around. I think Sheldon is feeling the gap grow between him and Amy, and that's set off an instinct to bond himself even closer to Leonard and Penny up to even bringing up it's the three of them in the relationship with Sheldon being the child/dog/person in need of being considered in their custody. Well, this time he can't hang with Amy because they now work at the same place, but I think the point stands anyway - they have no interaction throughout the whole episode, Sheldon's thoughts on the future have no place for Amy (or any other possible change) and he's just generally incredibly immature and self centered. Amy, on the other hand, treats the whole Bert thing with a lot of empathy and sensitivity, going out of her way to let him down gently and considering his feelings and so on, she's comfortably friends with Howard and Raj and, while Bert probably isn't her idea of a great catch, it does show there's other prospects for her out there. Yeah, they might be heading for a break of some kind, one way or another. She's surpassed Sheldon which is why I feel having the relationship go much farther would be like watching a person try to have an intimate human relationship with a dog, just...ick :stillsick: On the other hand, you know, their relationship has always had this kinky, controlling edge. Sheldon kind of seems to get off on control. There's a throwaway line someplace about how she stopped wearing lipgloss because he told her, which is weirdly erotic in context - he's been fixated enough on her lips to notice? And telling her what she can/can't do with them? And telling her what to sleep in (some other episode?) And the spanking, after his original proposal of putting her in stocks?...none of it is exactly raunchy, but it kind of adds up. And there's the whole contract thing, which explicitly lays out when she can or can't touch him...It's practically Fifty Shades of the color they paint the inside of asylums. But Amy always seemed to be playing her own, in some ways exploitative, games with him too. She could put him in these situations and experiments that she - and the audience - could recognize as having some romantic or sexual edge but seemed to go over his head. (Playing doctor, showing him her bikini wax, that whole closure issues episode which was explicitly paralleled to sexual frustrations, a bunch more i'm probably forgetting.) Sheldon holds more power, because she's much more open in her affection, but Amy has more knowledge and can manipulate him into a lot. I thought it was a rather interesting, surprisingly dirty, (certainly totally unhealthy,) dynamic, but it seems to be kind of falling apart this season - maybe it's harder to play weird, sublimated, mutually deniable games once they've actually had something approaching an adult conversation about the intimacy issues in the relationship, or Amy had just grown bored of the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I thought it was a rather interesting, surprisingly dirty, (certainly totally unhealthy,) dynamic, but it seems to be kind of falling apart this season - maybe it's harder to play weird, sublimated, mutually deniable games once they've actually had something approaching an adult conversation about the intimacy issues in the relationship, or Amy had just grown bored of the whole thing. The S&M angle is a good one as it explains why this relationship lasted so long. That, and Amy is probably terrified of sex and so wants a fellow inexperienced virgin to do things with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 The S&M angle is a good one as it explains why this relationship lasted so long. That, and Amy is probably terrified of sex and so wants a fellow inexperienced virgin to do things with. And her mother sounds conservatively puritan to the point of misogyny. Sticking with someone who humiliates and rejects her probably speaks to whatever she's internalized of that. ETA - btw, how awful was Bernadette? Destroying the comic book, lying to Howard, lying to Stuart, trying to bribe him with antidepressants, choosing an easy, mercenary out over friendship, principles or honesty. Yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 ETA - btw, how awful was Bernadette? Destroying the comic book, lying to Howard, lying to Stuart, trying to bribe him with antidepressants, choosing an easy, mercenary out over friendship, principles or honesty. Yay. I think we see why Bernadette is with this group. She's attractive, smart, funny, capable, and has money but she's happy with Howard and his band of weirdo friends because beneath the little sweet exterior she's a somewhat despicable person with a nasty streak of self-preservation. She can mingle with the group and feel completely superior to pretty much all of them. She's prettier than Amy, smarter than Penny, and more successful than any of the guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think we see why Bernadette is with this group. She's attractive, smart, funny, capable, and has money but she's happy with Howard and his band of weirdo friends because beneath the little sweet exterior she's a somewhat despicable person with a nasty streak of self-preservation. She can mingle with the group and feel completely superior to pretty much all of them. She's prettier than Amy, smarter than Penny, and more successful than any of the guys. Right on. It also kind of struck me as the sort of thing Howard (or, well, any goofy sitcom characters) would do - go through this convoluted scenario, running all over town and betraying friends and telling lies, just to avoid coming clean. Except Bernadette actually pulls it off smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 And her mother sounds conservatively puritan to the point of misogyny. Sticking with someone who humiliates and rejects her probably speaks to whatever she's internalized of that. What about Sheldon's Mother and Father and how those relationships have played into his character too...? I see elements of both of them in his actions, albeit his are a little to the extreme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think sometimes this show unfairly portrays Sheldon as unfeeling when he isn't. I think they *could* create some kind of physical intimacy between Sheldon and Amy and bring their relationship more towards a mature adult one, with him actually considering being with her in the future, but they need to start showing him having actual feelings of caring for someone besides himself. Thank God not all people on the ASD spectrum are like that or I'd be more worried about my youngest ever getting married. He shows more compassion and care than Sheldon does, and he's 8. I think that's what's interesting about Sheldon, as a character, that he can't really be pinned down easily. There's issues there that are spectrum-related, but there's others that aren't, but could easily be a reaction to those that are. Growing up feeling isolated and having difficulty communicating and relating morphing into the kind of emotional isolation and defensive condescension he's got going as an adult. It's certainly not a happy dynamic, but I don't think there's any pretense on the show's part that it's supposed to be. What about Sheldon's Mother and Father and how those relationships have played into his character too...? I see elements of both of them in his actions, albeit his are a little to the extreme... They do both seem to have been very no-filters, socially inappropriate people, which is kind of funny given that Sheldon doesn't seem to overtly identify with them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcibiades Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bert really seemed like a manipulative ass when he guilted Amy into agreeing to that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 They do both seem to have been very no-filters, socially inappropriate people, which is kind of funny given that Sheldon doesn't seem to overtly identify with them at all. I think part of it, is that out of the group Sheldon's parents seem the most nurturing. They were far from perfect, way too conservative Christian, and make no bones about what they believe and what they believe is a lot of nonsense, which is a lot of science and much of what Sheldon's world revolves around. But they tolerate and have tolerated it in Sheldon. They were concerned about him enough to get him "tested" when he showed signs of OCD or ASD as a child. His mother always sang "soft kitty" to him when he was sick. And while his dad may have been to insistent and forceful on it, he wanted to share something he loved "football" with his son by watching games with him and explaining it. Whenever Laurie Metcalf guests on the show, you can see that while she is sometimes manipulative (face it, anyone who wants or is forced to have Sheldon in their lives has to be manipulative now and then) she also comes across as very caring and a real "mom". You can also see while she is strongly devoted to her religious beliefs she's allowed a truce between her and her son because she loves him and wants him to remain in her life. The other characters' parents...well I can't stand Leonard's mom, she did a huge number on him. Howard...well absent dad and "HOWARDDDDDD!" 's mom...enough said. Raj's parents are traditional and played stereotypical on the show (not that they're the only ones, maybe the most visible though) and you can see they've cause issues with Raj. Penny's dad is caring enough about his girl, but her mother is never (hardly ever?) spoken of (have they even ever said Penny's last name once on the series?), and her dad has done everything he could to show disapproval of the men she dated until Leonard. But he's also Peter Fonda so he gets coolness points. and Bernadette's parents seem the second most supporting on the series but still her dad can be scary and he has his set in ways and can be distant a lot. So maybe because all his life Sheldon has had nothing but people who loved him and put up with him, it's actually fed into his "I am so great" superior self involved personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think Amy's mother takes the cake for awful parenting (well, barring Howard's vanishing dad,) though Leonard's mom is also way in the running.And while his dad may have been to insistent and forceful on it, he wanted to share something he loved "football" with his son by watching games with him and explaining it.I kind of expected Sheldon's dad to be a lot worse than he seems to be. Like, they could easily have written him as very distant or dismissive of his nebbish son, like Leonard's parents (especially since Sheldon has siblings too) but instead he comes across as someone who tried to drag him into his orbit and connect him to stuff. So Sheldon has that streak of somewhat goofy Texan 'nationalism', so to speak, which is one of his most endearing features, I think, amid all the aloofeness and dis-connection.So maybe because all his life Sheldon has had nothing but people who loved him and put up with him, it's actually fed into his "I am so great" superior self involved personality. ...and then his connection to his mother (and his grandmother) is still really childish and immature, while he's pretty distant from his (twin!) sister, who is more of a potential peer. (I remember the episode where she showed up, way back in season 1, because it really cemented my fondness for the show. It's kind of a terrible episode, very standard-sitcom, 'someone's hot sister shows up and everyone hits on her', but there's a throwaway line where she gets annoyed at him but also says something like "If you want to start acting like you're my brother all of a sudden, great, but..." and it really has nothing to do with the episode, which wasn't really about their relationship but about the guys flaming out with a hot girl, but it just made the whole thing suddenly so much more interesting, and so sad. Of course having Sheldon for a twin brother would be incredibly unsatisfying. Of course she's putting herself through getting ogled by a bunch of creeps because it gives her a chance to spend a little more time with him...and of course nothing much comes of it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonblade Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 About Amy, one thing that I've noticed lately is that she is being presented as attractive, or at least more feminine. With all the talk here about Amy and Sheldon breaking up in the not-too-distant future, as well as the inclusion of Bert, her appearance reflects she isn't an asexual clone of Sheldon, and since she dresses herself, she no longer sees herself as unattractive and devoid of feminine qualities, either. I think this does not bode well for her relationship with Sheldon, at least in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Finally managed to cut down my Marxist take on BBT to readable length. Ish. I would have posted it here, but you lot would just agree. (I suspect it's not going to exactly be a fierce intellectual thrill over there either, but at least it's out of my system. Ish.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathete Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 So this episode Howard and Raj got very protective of Amy for Sheldon, taking her out for lunch because he wasn't there, then heading off a rival suitor. Also I liked your essay datepalm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I liked that they resolved the Penny-Leonard proposal like actual adults might and then had the angst (however TV-landish it might be) about how and why one person will support anothers decisions. The comments Sheldon made to Penny even seemed...human...about having to focus on one thing. and more stuff on my mind, but I just got Boy Duty. More to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 and more stuff on my mind, but I just got Boy Duty. More to come. priorities, priorities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Is anything good ever going to happen to Stuart? :crying: TheLeonard: knock knock knockSheldon: Penny!was funny though. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztemhead Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'm more convinced than ever that Leonard and Penny should break up. This whole last episode she misses the point entirely. It's not that he doesn't believe in her, the important thing is that he still feels the need to lie to her about what he really thinks. That whole bit where he is in cheesecake factory and starts verbally throwing on her seemed a bit too contrived to me, even for this show. "Now I'm going to start telling you some things that will start a conflict..." I think Sheldon's #1 issue is the size of his ego. If he could pay even the slightest bit of respect to the social sciences, he could start on the path to learning to understand other people better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 priorities, priorities... "Forget about your newborn child and think about the people that need you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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