Let's discuss minor characters (from now on, abreviated to LDMC): Daven Lannister (As always, spoilers)

[Kipor]

Hello everyone and welcome to another “Let’s discuss minor characters” thread! Today our character of discussion will be someone that I’m sure we will see doing something important in the next book. He is currently the Warden of the West and one of the last lines of defense for the Lannisters, being the last (or one of the last) of them in condition to command an army. Yes, I am talking about Ser Daven Lannister, Warden of the West.

Many may not notice this, but Daven is actually one of the oldest minor character in the series be alive. His events can be traced all the way back to A Game of Thrones, where he asked Lord Tywin to organize the foraging of the Riverlands. Some, with more attention, may remember that he is also mentioned in A Clash of Kings, where the Blackfish says that, despite Ser Stafford being a fool, he has a son that is more formidable. We all know who is the Blackfish, and by that, it should be clear that Daven is not one to play with.

When he finally appears in AFFC, we can see what he truly is… and it seems like, in a way, a combination between Robert Baratheon and Jaime Lannister. With “a long yellow hair, a thick mustache, sidewhiskers as thick as a hedgerow and a beard”, Jaime notes that Daven resembles a real lion... and that resemblance may go to more than just he’s appearance. Unlike other Lannisters who are shown to be plotters (with the expection of Jaime), Daven is shown as a warrior, boisterous and arrogant, as shown in his conversation with Lewys Piper. He is also very blunt and honest, saying upfront that Ryman Frey is drunk instead of sick during the war council. However, it is important not to underestimate him because of this; even if he is blunt, Daven is also shown to have some wits and humility, such as saying that he does not deserve the title of Warden of the West and that it should go to Kevan, as well as being able to tell that the Blackfish is not going to give up. He also is at least a capable fighter, as he says that he beat one of Lewys Piper brothers bloody once, though it is hard to know if this is true or simple boasting.

That said, Daven has the same problem as a commander that Jaime; he is impatient. In the war council, Daven is shown to be insisting that they should assault Riverrun, despite knowing that the castle is strong, has a considerable garrison and is in control of one of Westeros best commanders, the Blackfish. Though the Lannister had a numerical advantage in the fight and had to make quick progress because of their lack of supplies, Daven knew that the assault would cost them many soldiers, and with the still-not-steady grasp of the Lannister on the crown, a alternative that would have such a big cost should only be suggested when there is really no other choice.

After the recent events, a great deal of responsibility will fall upon Daven. With Cersei disgraced, Jaime missing and Kevan dead, Daven is the last remaining Lannister with the ability and position to lead their forces… but with his bluntness, lack of patience and apparent lack of grasps in how the game is played, things are not looking good to Daven’s survival.

IMPORTANT FACTS:

- Honest and boisterous

- Regarded as a (somewhat) formidable commander

- Capable warrior

- Impatient and blunt

- Only male child of Ser Stafford Lannister, brother to Lady Joanna Lannister.

- “Most powerful” Lannister ATM; despite Cersei being technical more powerful than him by being Lady of Castely Rock and Tommem being King of the Iron Throne, one was disgraced and the other one is a kid, making Daven the (unofficial) leader of the Lannisters (of sorts) for now.

- Has an awesome beard of glory

OP’S OPINION:

Daven is a character that I’m guessing will die early in TWOW. The reason for that is quite simply; everyone will be out to kill him.

He will be one of Stannis main enemies because of his position with the Lannister, and the same goes to Aegon, as well as Daenerys (if she comes to Westeros). He is very blunt and expresses his dislike openly, and while this is awesome, it also makes it so that his allies don’t like him very much. Besides, even his allies may be on to him; being the major Lannister player at the moment, the Tyrells may have interest in keeping him out of King’s Landing in order to consolidate their own power, and I don’t think Cersei will take it kindly if he tries to take control of things.

Furthermore, one of my greatest guesses is that there will be an attack on the west in the next book. As Warden of the West, Daven won’t be able to let that past and will raise an army to meet the enemy. Then, because of his impatience, he will end up being caught in a trap, similarly to what happened to Jaime in the beginning of the WOTFK… however, because of his position, Daven will be killed, so as to take out all of the Lannister players.

P.S.: Well folks, this is the last of the LDMC threads that I have done for now. I’ll be back with them in some days, don’t worry… and when I’m back, these are the three characters that will be discussed:

Rolland Storm

Garlan Tyrell

Lothor Brune

I was going to make one about Aurane Waters too, as per suggestions, but I see that someone already did a similar thread recently. I feel like it would be somewhat pointless to make yet another thread to discuss him – at least now – so I’ll leave it up at your hands, guys. If you want it, just say it here and I’ll set something up. Anyway, the planned three shall prove pretty interesting to us for now.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

I've always liked him for some reason!

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Many ve said he is going to be killed by the BWB in some sort of RW when he marries the Frey girl.

[jarl the climber]

There is another Lannister who is the castletan of Casterly Rock, I can not recall his name, who is around the same age as Daven, nmaybe older, I think he is married to a Crakehall but I might be wrong about that. I tthink Kevans surviving son Martyn is also at Casterly Rock and he is around 15, Kevan told us that his wife is pious and seems totally uninterested in politics. Daven is a competent commander but he lacks the weight that Kevan had, he admits to Jaimie that the Freys would not have vexed Kevan the way they did him. I actually see Daven hanging in there for at least a awhile. He will anger the Freys by putting off his wedding or even marrying the Redwyne girl, to repair the Tyrell alliance. I think Martyns Mother will refuse to marry him to Gatehouse Ami. So the Frey alliance will come apart and Daven will play a role in it. I think that Genna will become the unofficial leader of the Lannisters all though Daven and the other cousin will control the military forces unless Jaimie returns.

[shearstone]

Many ve said he is going to be killed by the BWB in some sort of RW when he marries the Frey girl.

That's what I'm expecting as well, a shame as I actually quite like him.

[CJ McLannister]

I've never given him much thought, but his beard does make a good point. I would think the biggest threat to the West right now is the Ironmen. Is Daven at Casterly Rock then, or is he still out with an army somewhere? It's a shame we don't have a POV anywhere near there (for now).

[jarl the climber]

I've never given him much thought, but his beard does make a good point. I would think the biggest threat to the West right now is the Ironmen. Is Daven at Casterly Rock then, or is he still out with an army somewhere? It's a shame we don't have a POV anywhere near there (for now).

He is in the Riverlands, there is another cousin at the Rock holding the castle, I think his name Damion, he is married to a Crakehall, he has a grown son, who is a knight and his daughter, Lanna is married to Lord Jast

[Lord Martin]

Do we know where he was headed after the siege of RR?

He did not head to the Westerlands with Ser Forley Prester and the Westerlings...

Nor did he leave with the Freys, certainly not Ryman's group, nor did he leave with Edwyn Frey...

He didn't go to Darry w/ Strongboar...

He did not go with Jaime to Raventree Hall....

So did he stay at River Run with Lord Eamon and Aunt Jenna?

[Fat Mac]

I'm not sold on the RW 2.0, and even if it happens doesn't necessarily mean that Davens a goner.

I really like him though. He's the level head that the Lannisters need at this point.

[direwienerdog]

He interests me as well. I think,he is a childhood friend of Jaime's and Jaime shows him more respect than just about anyone. Some insight into his persona, he vows to grow hair and beard. Until his father's death is avenged, but let's it continue to grow after he gets his vengeance.

For a Lannister he is a straight shooter and doesn't put up with bs.

It's been pointed out he is at Riverrun and many think LS has plans for the wedding. Violent plans that will catch Frey and Lannisters unawares.

[Jslay427]

Jamie seems to rspect his abilities and not just because he is blood. Jamie is honest in regards to his kin (Cleos/Emmon Frey, Ser Stafford). He seems like he has very little taste for plotting/politics and prefers to kill the problem himself. Pretty likable.

[Ashkhen]

Link to a related discussion: Speculating about Daven's bride and the RW 2.0

An interesting quote brought up in that discussion:

Ser Daven snorted. “I’ll wed and bed my stoat, never fear. I know what happened to Robb Stark. From what Edwyn tells me, though, I’d best pick one who hasn’t flowered yet, or I’m like to find that Black Walder has been there first. I’ll wager he’s had Gatehouse Ami, and more than thrice. Maybe that explains Lancel’s godliness, and his father’s mood.”

Daven wants to marry a Frey girl "who hasn't flowered yet"... OP in the thread had narrowed it down to ~5 possible brides, and the oldest two were 11 years old. That's pretty creeps.

[Mad Monkey]

Link to a related discussion: Speculating about Daven's bride and the RW 2.0

An interesting quote brought up in that discussion:

Daven wants to marry a Frey girl "who hasn't flowered yet"... OP in the thread had narrowed it down to ~5 possible brides, and the oldest two were 11 years old. That's pretty creeps.

I'd like to think that he wouldn't actually bed her for a long time but who knows what these monsters get up to in their bedrooms any more?

Apart from this though, Daven seems like a solid guy.

[jarl the climber]

Link to a related discussion: Speculating about Daven's bride and the RW 2.0

An interesting quote brought up in that discussion:

Daven wants to marry a Frey girl "who hasn't flowered yet"... OP in the thread had narrowed it down to ~5 possible brides, and the oldest two were 11 years old. That's pretty creeps.

I'll add two things, he could plan on marrying a younger girl so he can later put the marriage aside, in other words he will not bed his Frey bride, due to her age and will wait for the right oppurtunity to put the marriage aside. Second this was before the two Queens were arrested, the family might decide that him marrying the Redwyne girl would be better politically at this point.

[The_Robb]

Could Aurane Waters being of the velayron line be Danny's savior? Targ bloodlines?

[Gurkhal]

Link to a related discussion: Speculating about Daven's bride and the RW 2.0

An interesting quote brought up in that discussion:

Daven wants to marry a Frey girl "who hasn't flowered yet"... OP in the thread had narrowed it down to ~5 possible brides, and the oldest two were 11 years old. That's pretty creeps.

As mentioned its entirely possible to marry a girl and wait with the consumation until the girl is of age. Or he's just trash-talking the Freys a little.

[sertravisredbeard]

I didn't think his idea to attack Riverrun was that rash, given his disparaging of the Freys and riverlords in his army so far. If Jaime approved an attack I'm sure he would have agreed with his cousin to use the riverlanders first, followed by Freys. This probably would have left a pretty large amount of westermen left after the fight. The fact that he hadn't attacked yet proves that he isn't too foolhardy of a battle commander.

I hope he isn't killed if the Brotherhood makes a move on Riverrun. He'll make a good hostage, the same way Edmure was taken as one during the Red Wedding.

And is he going to keep the beard until after he gets to kill some random Karstark? If so that'd be cool. Stannis can send him Cregan and Arnolf to appease the last formidable general from the Westerlands.

[Ser Arys Redshirt]

Man, I hope Daven isn't on the death list. He's one of my favorite Lannisters. I have another post somewhere (sorry, I'm not so good at links) where I discuss how he and Genna represent what I consider to be traditional Lannister family values. They both have a bitchy wit, a strong pragmatism, a bit of pride, and a lot of affection for those they love.

I hope Devan makes it. In fact, I wouldn't mind if he inherits Casterly Rock. The Long-Maned Lion would make a good lord, I think.