Targaryen Discussion (tPatQ Spoilers)

[mindchap]

Pretty much. Marrying outside the royal family is a step down, regardless how great the house chosen is. They are still not royalty. And plenty of Targs married outside the family anyway. We know of them marrying Baratheons, Arryns, Hightowers, Velyerons, Martells, and whoever Eggs sons married.

Exactly. It's not like the whole bunch looked down on the rest of the populace. And to me it doesn't seem to make a huge difference whether the parents are both Targs or not they can still create great or horrible offspring, just like everybody else in the realm.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister]

All monarchies and aristocracies are class-ist or believe in blood-superiority. That's their only claim to the throne.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister]

How was Rhaenys a great grandmother? She was 55 years old when she died. And she herself was half Baratheon on her mother's side.

I meant that the Baratheon ancestor was Joffrey's great-grandmother.

[Free Northman]

This is a funny thread indeed.

[Bearson]

As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, the thought of having "Superior Blood" to those who you ruled, was the thought behind (at least) European aristocracy prior to the Enlightenment. And even within that aristocracy, there was a perception that one family could be superior to another family if their ancestors had a more prestigous history. That's not racism, though. Racism applies to, as the name implies, a race as a whole, something more than simply a single family unit.

Also, if dragons existed in the real world, and a gene for being able to communicate with those dragons existed, but was exceedingly rare, then families with that gene would objectively have an advantage over those who did not carry that gene. Racism is built up around an imagined superiority of own's own race, and the imagined inferiority of other races. If a gene really did exist that allowed you to control a dragon and have a greater affinity for magic than the other members of not just other tribes, but even your own tribe, that's not an imagined superiority.

[David Selig]

This board really cracks me up sometimes.

It's a feudal system, it's all about bloodlines.

I have to agree that Jon may be the first to break this cycle. He was raised in First Men culture, and took much of their customs and beliefs to heart. As a result he believe that anything that excludes people of other cultures may make situations much worse. He chose to spare the Wildings because he knew they were people, just like Northerners, and make alliances with them. Secondly because the Old Gods prohibits incest, Jon may discontinue this practice because he has seen how incest make sickly offspring, like Gilly's son, and the Aery debacle just proves to him that incest has exacerbated Aery's madness.

It was the First men culture which has shown the most clear example of racism in the series by discriminating against the wildlings for 8000 freaking years.

[Sansa_Stark]

This board really cracks me up sometimes.

It's a feudal system, it's all about bloodlines.

It was the First men culture which has shown the most clear example of racism in the series by discriminating against the wildlings for 8000 freaking years.

Aren't the wildlings first men?

I mean don't they have fairly strong first men blood in them?

[Sansa_Stark]

I personally think some Valyrian superiority complex had things to do with it.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1320/

Steffon went to the Free Cities to find a high born Valyrian bride.

I don't know if this is because of some belief that a Valyrian girl would have MAGIC blood or something.

But the way I see it, it is a bit racist.

[Lord Damian]

racism is certainly a bad thing, especially in this day and age. But of all the things to hate the targs for, this is low on the list. How about we start with the big two; murdering and raping ppl. We could move on to stealing massive amounts of wealth from nations or violently forcing your rule over said nations.

IT is their general attitude towards people from their "high" perch that make them undesireable and fearsome. Their lack of humanity that make them horrible rulers. The Starks and other high houses for example, while they ruled and still do to a great extent do not even have this view of like. the Targs/Valaryens are dangerous with this view alone. Give them power and crowns and common people who are not even viewed as equal person to person are viewed even less than simple subjects. That is my point.

[Lord Damian]

Let me get this straight, the Targs are a race unto themselves, they are racist. You think they should all be destroyed. Are you including all? Even the bastards? Anyone with any Targ blood?

So you are calling for genocide? You must be a pretty big fan of Ser Amory and Ser Gregor then. Get those Targ babies and play a little handball. Yippie! What fun.

Seriously dude.

I am actually looking upon Dany and this Aegon/Griff kid as the problem but in general. the Targs needed to go with a general mindset that dehumanizes other people whom do not have the same physical traits as you such as the the Valaryens who inbreed for that very reason. Yes.

[Nictarion]

I meant that the Baratheon ancestor was Joffrey's great-grandmother.

I was talking about Rhaenyra's son Joffrey, not Cersei's.

[danm_999]

Trying to observe a medieval event with 20th century glasses makes you deduce such anachronistic ideas.

Not least of which being we're in the 21st century.....

[Balaurderaa]

Joffrey Velaryon

Father Laenor Velaryon

Grandmother Rhaenys Targaryen (His mother)

Great-Grandmother Jocelyn Baratheon (Her mother)

That's what they mean by saying his Great-Grandmother is a Baratheon

[Tall Tyrion Lannister]

I was talking about Rhaenyra's son Joffrey, not Cersei's.

So was I, Joffrey Targaryen's 'Baratheon ancestor' was his great-grandmother, Jocelyn Baratheon (the mother of the Rhaynys Targaryen).

We seem to have got our wires crossed, I was trying to your correct your statement that his grandmother was a Baratheon.

[Nictarion]

So was I, Joffrey Targaryen's 'Baratheon ancestor' was his great-grandmother, Jocelyn Baratheon (the mother of the Rhaynys Targaryen).

We seem to have got our wires crossed, I was trying to your correct your statement that his grandmother was a Baratheon.

I should have said his grandmother was half Baratheon.

[SeanF]

Targaryens seem to believe that they're almost gods. But, I don't really see that as racism. It's a more extreme form of a belief that's widely shared among the world's nobility.