Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug spoiler thread

[Ygrain]

Despite my better judgement, I went to see the film today because I was gifted a ticket. The whole thing could have, actually should have, been shorter by an hour. Never before did I think that I might be bored by action scenes but they were terribly overdone and dragged forever. While I was mildly enjoying myself at the beginning (though the constant logical gaps kept demanding my attention), I was plain annoyed towards the end. One dragon talk and chase is cool. Half an hour of it, and I wished that both Smaug and the dwarves just shut up.

Also, I'd much appreciate if there weren't so many motives copied from LotR - did Gandalf really have to be late because he was held captive? Did the Arkenstone really have to be the Ring 2.0? Did we really have to get a copy-pasted healing scene (and where did the orcs of the Misty Mountains get a morgul arrow?)

To my surprise, Tauriel didn't suck as much as I thought but on the other hand, the romance was even worse. "Don't you want to search me because I might have something in my pants" is a way to sparkle an interracial romance? Gosh, I wouldn't have figured that out for my very life. Also, that part when she lets the son of her king go fighting orcs on his own was really precious. In that ambush, Legolas should have been smashed into a pulp.

I did like Bard, minus that loving dad cliche but I really, really want to see how he kills Smaug with a single shot from a weapon that he had never, ever, used before in his whole life. But, given PJ's idea of the use of archery in close combat, I shouldn't be really surprised. I hope that someone enlightens him one day (hopefully, also about architecture, because fortresses really, really don't consist of weird catwalks over vast empty halls).

I'll end it here because I could rant here for hours; suffice to say that I am not going to see the third or fist part even if I get a free ticket.

[WinterKing]

The Arkenstone wasn't the Ring 2.0. It probably is one of the Silmarils, which caused at least as much, if not much more, woe than the One Ring.

I had never thought about that, but it makes sense.Wouldnt the elfs try to take it anyway?

The last time one was stolen from them it did spark some wars...

[Clueless Northman]

If it was a Silmaril, the Elves would've noticed. Heck, even the Dwarves would have noticed. These things were too powerful for Sauron himself not being directly interested and involved in taking it for himself.

Besides, if it were, Tolkien would've mentioned it somewhere.

[Jace, Extat]

What is a Silmaril?

[sperry]

I liked this one. Didn't care for Unexpected Journey.

[Fat Mac]

I liked the movie well enough, certainly better than the first. If they were going to do it over the top, at least they made it entertaining.

[blasted_saber]

Saw it tonight.

My main complaint is the design of Laketown. Just didnt do it for me. Thought it looked a little too silly and didnt fit with any of the establihed architecture/design from Jackson's previous works.

Elves were fine. Didnt mind the addition. Loved the idea of the foundry, thought that was cool. Wanted more Beorn. The scene in the barrels where Bombur bounced along the rocks, while completely unrelastic, was stunninginly filmed I thought . That continuos sequence was jaw dropping, very impressed. Loved Smaug. Didnt mind the chase of the dwarves through Erebor. If Smaug had only been on screen for a few minutes, everyone would be whining.

Actually, one more complaint. The good guys all appear to have typed in the God Mode command. No one gets hurt, despite falling off rock cliffs, out of suspended buckets/trees/whatever, through battles, tossed this was and that, except for Killi.

EDIT - One more thing. SOme fo the weapns in Jackson's movies are gorgeous. Then we get whatever the hell those were that the dwarves raided from Laketowns Armoury. Like what the hell? They looked like a big plastic clubs, not battle axes/maces/swords.

[Fat Mac]

EDIT - One more thing. SOme fo the weapns in Jackson's movies are gorgeous. Then we get whatever the hell those were that the dwarves raided from Laketowns Armoury. Like what the hell? They looked like a big plastic clubs, not battle axes/maces/swords.

I was thinking the same thing. It looked like bad plastic weapons used for conventions or Halloween.

[Ygrain]

They're the 3 jewels created by Feanor of the Noldor, possessing the only remaining light of the two trees in Valinor. They were stolen by Morgoth so Feanor and the other Noldor swore an oath to oppose any who possessed the jewels. This lead to them fighting not only against Morgoth and his minions, but also occasioned kinslaying among the Elves. The history of the Silmarils is essentially the entire theme of the Silmarillion.

Two of the Silmarils were forever lost, one of which was cast into the depths of the earth. Many Tolkien readers believe that the Arkenstone may be one of the lost Silmarils which was discovered by the dwarves.

I don't know which many you speak of, it is said in the Silmarillion plain and simple that the last Silmaril is worn by Ëarendil traversing the skies as a star. It is even echoed in LotR when Sam realizes that the light in the vial of Galadriel is actually the light of that very star aka the Silmaril and the story continues.

I'm not necessarily saying that the Arkenstone IS one of the Silmarils (I probably overstated my case a bit in the last post), but that it seems Jackson is playing up that element of the Arkenstone. I definitely thought it was interested that when Thranduil was trying to make a deal with Thorin, his only price was the return of "two gems".

If this is indeed what PJ intends then he is basing it on a superficial similarity.

[naz]

The idea that the Arkenstone is a Silmaril is beyond ludicrous. I imagine Tolkien having himself a good old chuckle after hearing that. Not to mention that, as far as I remember, the Arkenstone is about the size of a coconut, whereas the Silmarils are fairly small in size, maybe the size of large walnuts (like the Hope Diamond or Koh-i-Noor). At least, I think it's mentioned that you can hold all three Silmarils in one hand. Also, one of them hangs from the Nauglamir; I can't imagine a necklace with a jewel the size of a coconut hanging off of someone's neck.

(Why am I even discussing this??)

PS: Then again, at this point I can totally see PJ making such a claim if he was allowed to (rights-wise), just because it would be more EPIC.

[The Marquis de Leech]

The idea that the Arkenstone is a Silmaril is beyond ludicrous. I imagine Tolkien having himself a good old chuckle after hearing that. Not to mention that, as far as I remember, the Arkenstone is about the size of a coconut, whereas the Silmarils are fairly small in size, maybe the size of large walnuts (like the Hope Diamond or Koh-i-Noor). At least, I think it's mentioned that you can hold all three Silmarils in one hand. Also, one of them hangs from the Nauglamir; I can't imagine a necklace with a jewel the size of a coconut hanging off of someone's neck.

Feanor used to wear all three silmarils to parties. He's not going to have three coconuts (or even tennis balls) tied to his forehead.

Bilbo by contrast keeps the Arkenstone in his pillow-cloth. If it were small, he'd keep it in his pocket.

[Mentat]

That having been said, I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I actually liked the dwarf-dragon sequence, with a minor nitpick of Bilbo's importance being reduced.

I kind of liked it too, at least in concept, although the giant gold statue at the end did look awful and they should have killed off a couple of dwarves.

Dragon's shoud not be killed by arrows (and I don't care if you take a weird cross-ballista bolt, rename it 'black arrow' and give it an amount of foreshadowing that would make Chekhov's gun blush, it still doesn't work for me). I really liked that it was explained that the plan was to steal the Arkenstone from the dragon hoard and then use it to marshal a dwarven army to kill Smaug, because it makes a lot of sense (and if it features in the book I missed it, though it has been a long time), but in the absence of an army, I also liked that the dwarves finally decided to confront the Dragon and try to kill it. That's what the quest was after all. What they actually ended up doing was (as so many things in this film) pretty silly, but using the city itself against Smaug in some inventive way sounds good to me on paper. Make it something cool, kill of a couple of dwarves for drama and you have something I'd really like to watch even if Tolkien never wrote it.

[Ygrain]

Feanor used to wear all three silmarils to parties. He's not going to have three coconuts (or even tennis balls) tied to his forehead.

ROFL

[Jon AS]

I also liked that the dwarves finally decided to confront the Dragon and try to kill it. That's what the quest was after all.

In the book the quest was to steal as much of the treasure as they could, as confronting Smaug was pretty much out of the question. That's why they hired a burglar instead of a hero (though Gandalf also comments that heroes are hard to come by in this day and age IIRC).

[The Marquis de Leech]

In the book the quest was to steal as much of the treasure as they could, as confronting Smaug was pretty much out of the question. That's why they hired a burglar instead of a hero (though Gandalf also comments that heroes are hard to come by in this day and age IIRC).

The original book is about stealing treasure, yes, and the Dwarves are mostly ragtag opportunists. Then in the Quest for Erebor, Tolkien himself tries to retrospectively make it about taking out Smaug to pre-empt Sauron.

[Jon AS]

The original book is about stealing treasure, yes, and the Dwarves are mostly ragtag opportunists. Then in the Quest for Erebor, Tolkien himself tries to retrospectively make it about taking out Smaug to pre-empt Sauron.

But that's still mostly on Gandalf's part. And even then it's not exactly a master plan. In fact it's probably crazier than "let's saunter into Mordor and drop the Ring into a volcano". At least in that case they knew how to destroy the Ring and that it was in fact the only method to do so.

[Welease Woger]

Much better than AUJ, but still pretty bad. AUJ was so bad that I had made my mind that I wouldn't watch DoS at all but all the reviews were mentioning how it was better than the previous movie, so I decided to give it a chance. Should have stayed home. Although it's action packed, I've been bored most of the time. I knew from the beginning that no main character would die (and I haven't read the books), so I couldn't get involved at all. The orcs were all incompetent and the dragon too stupid to give any sense of danger.

I'm fearful that Peter Jackson is turning into this generation's George Lucas: he had directed one of the greatest trilogies ever only to become a mediocre director later on and make terrible prequel.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Three further arguments against the theory:

- The Arkenstone was cut by the dwarves. The chances of anybody cutting a Silmaril are practically nil.

- A Silmaril would be worth rather more than one fourteenth of the hoard of Thror.

- The Silmarils will not be recovered until the end of the world.

As The Hobbit was not originally attached to Tolkien's wider mythology, I think he might well have consciously replicated the idea of bright sparkly jewels causing strife across stories. But it (almost certainly) ain't a Silmaril.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

TGU,

So, Tharanduil, who saw a Silmaril imbedded in Nauglimr, when he was one of Thingol's nobles in Doriath, didn't recognize the gem when he saw it?

[Jon AS]

Why not? The story was written without the intent to tie it into the Silmarillion. The similarities actually come down to "the Arkenstone is a glowing gem" and "the Silmarils are glowing gems", everything else needs to be explained away for it to make sense.