Role in WoW: Sansa Stark (Spoilers)

[rozemarijn]

Littlefinger is not poisoning Sweetronin with sweet sleep. That is the medicine used to calm him down. In large doses it is fatal like a lot of our medications that we use in our daily lives. He doesn't have an incentive to kill Robin as the Vale is in LF's direct control until Robin comes of age or dies.

I believe Sansa's exact thoughts were 'Petyr and she agreed what's best for Sweetrobin is not the same as best for lord Robert. Petyr wants to hide Robins sickness for now. He doesn't want to the rest of the Eyrie to know Robin won't grow up or produce an heir himself. So he waits. And I think it is to soon for Robin to die to be the controversial chapter, unless it is completely at the end of the book. Yet it is not is it? It was removed from ADWD so it is at the beginning.

Also Littlefinger would not get his hands dirty would he? Except for Lysa which had to be solved. If he wants to kill Robin he will plan it and keep himself out of sight. Sansa would seem plausible. But would she? Her own nephew? A child?

I guess the controversial chapter will be Littlefinger his doing. He is obsessed with her and wants her.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

It is highly likely it won't be a controversial chapter in the first place. So sexual violence and murder are out of the question. It is something else.

[rozemarijn]

It is highly likely it won't be a controversial chapter in the first place. So sexual violence and murder are out of the question. It is something else.

Sex? Yet I cannot see her 'doing' anything like that. Perhaps Myranda will invite Littlefinger and she will sneak on them?

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Sex? Yet I cannot see her 'doing' anything like that. Perhaps Myranda will invite Littlefinger and she will sneak on them?

:ack: that would be just.... disturbing. What I think could happen is

Sansa hearing about the rape of the saltpans

Sansa having some sex talk with Myranda.

Sansa declining lemon cakes :lol:

Sansa having another wet dream :leer:

[Joseph Alfred]

That's right it was Brandon. There is also the fact that Hosted Tully killed his baby in Lysa. I still see him as more of a sympathetic character than Cercei and more deserving of any gains in power, prestige, and property.

Perhaps the controversy will involve Harry as he will most likely be introduced in Sansa's first few chapters. He is also known to already have a few bastards running around.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

That's right it was Brandon. There is also the fact that Hosted Tully killed his baby in Lysa. I still see him as more of a sympathetic character than Cercei and more deserving of any gains in power, prestige, and property.

Perhaps the controversy will involve Harry as he will most likely be introduced in Sansa's first few chapters. He is also known to already have a few bastards running around.

Agree to disagree then. You prefer Littlefinger and I prefer Cersei. Though it is pretty obvious that they both will die eventually. ^_^

That is also highly possible. Maybe it will be the personality of Harry that might cause "controversy".

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Just a thought about the controversy!Harry actually will be just as Sansa wanted the perfect husband but she realises she doesn't want to marry him(Sansa doesn't want to marry again or being used for her rights for Winterfell) or the Hound indeed having caught Sansa like Brienne said (like the controversy of Arya Stark marrying to Ramsay or Theon having killed Bran and Rickon).

[Winnief]

I still think the "controversial chapter" will just be Sansa having the Sex Talk with Miranda Royce.

[rozemarijn]

That is also highly possible. Maybe it will be the personality of Harry that might cause "controversy".

The condition of the marriage was he had to like her. Perhaps she seduces him or perhaps, man of the world as he is, he does like her but gets a little bit fast. And we are back on rape. We are always focussing on Littlefinger but there is about to be another one horny in/by her presence ...

I see the sex dream totally happen btw. It would be very typical and it should star Littlefinger. Her (subconsciously) wanting him is definitely controversial. (She doesn't like to kiss him though. Yet as it would be subconscious her feelings would not matter). I definitely want to read that! ;)

And what about her seducing Sweetrobin? Her sickly way to young yet interested cousin? She does not even have to go all the way, just a little bit of seducing and cuddling? Controversial enough. And Martin has taken the route with Tomnen an Maergery, yet Cersei and moral decency came between it. Littlefinger wouldn't care or notice.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

The condition of the marriage was he had to like her. Perhaps she seduces him or perhaps, man of the world as he is, he does like her but gets a little bit fast. And we are back on rape. We are always focussing on Littlefinger but there is about to be another one horny in/by her presence ...

I don't think she will try to seduce him. because a) she has been subjected to sexual abuse and almost rape scenarios I don't see her actively seducing someone b) she doesn't want to marry again.

I see the sex dream totally happen btw. It would be very typical and it should star Littlefinger. Her (subconsciously) wanting him is definitely controversial. (She doesn't like to kiss him though. Yet as it would be subconscious her feelings would not matter). I definitely want to read that! ;)

If she has a sex dream about Littlefinger that would cause a massive controversial in every region of the fandom not just some. If she truly has such dream it will most likely about Sandor Clegane as he is the only who she is actually sexually attracted to.

And what about her seducing Sweetrobin? Her sickly way to young yet interested cousin? She does not even have to go all the way, just a little bit of seducing and cuddling? Controversial enough. And Martin has taken the route with Tomnen an Maergery, yet Cersei and moral decency came between it. Littlefinger wouldn't care or notice.

This would be even more creepy, sexually abusive and again cause a lot of controversy in the whole fandom. Considering the effect she has on Sweetrobin she doesn't have to seduce him. Just boosting his confidence and asking sweetly will be sufficient.

[Littlefinger86]

Agree to disagree. A titan is not a giant. And a mockingbird is not a titan.

[CyberKlown28]

If the plan goes as is, but they take their men west(riverlands, etc.) instead of north. Any chance Sansa meets up with The Hound and he becomes her main guard?

[Kasrith]

If the plan goes as is, but they take their men west(riverlands, etc.) instead of north. Any chance Sansa meets up with The Hound and he becomes her main guard?

Seems like he's had a change of heard if he's the Quiet Isle gravedigger, although seeing her again may be what puts him back into the game..

[Petyr Patter]

If the plan goes as is, but they take their men west(riverlands, etc.) instead of north. Any chance Sansa meets up with The Hound and he becomes her main guard?

I believe Martin has written Sandor out of the story. For starters, there are some pretty definitive statements of death said to Brienne and by extension to the reader. To turn around and reintroduce him would be in essence lying to reader to surprise them later. Plus, the overarching theme of A Feast for Crows deals with the horrible results of war, including "broken men." Clegane is clearly meant to be one of those broken men. He's lost his courage in the fire, his employer, his gold, and his last hope ended when it became impossible to find a way to ransom Arya to a Stark or a Tully. He was horribly wounded in his last fight.

Even if Sandor is still alive, for him to "recover" from being a broken man is the opposite of Martin's message of war having consequences.

[DrunkSister]

I believe Martin has written Sandor out of the story. For starters, there are some pretty definitive statements of death said to Brienne and by extension to the reader. To turn around and reintroduce him would be in essence lying to reader to surprise them later. Plus, the overarching theme of A Feast for Crows deals with the horrible results of war, including "broken men." Clegane is clearly meant to be one of those broken men. He's lost his courage in the fire, his employer, his gold, and his last hope ended when it became impossible to find a way to ransom Arya to a Stark or a Tully. He was horribly wounded in his last fight.

Even if Sandor is still alive, for him to "recover" from being a broken man is the opposite of Martin's message of war having consequences.

Definitive statements that HOUND is dead, narrated to Brienne by a broken man who has managed to build a life for himself after the war. And later we see Stranger resist being gelded. IMO we are not supposed to write Clegane off just yet.

I don't know about the wider message. Sandor had help of his fellow men and I think that is also important to show.

P. S. How do I get smileys from phone?

[Petyr Patter]

Definitive statements that HOUND is dead, narrated to Brienne by a broken man who has managed to build a life for himself after the war. And later we see Stranger resist being gelded. IMO we are not supposed to write Clegane off just yet.

I don't know about the wider message. Sandor had help of his fellow men and I think that is also important to show.

P. S. How do I get smileys from phone?

These are reasons why I can buy into Sandor still being alive, but those subtle difference between Hound and Sandor is buried beneath the Elder monk saying (and I paraphrase), "stop looking for the man, he is dead, I was with him when he died, and I proceeded to bury him." Most readers are going to go away convinced Sandor Clegane died. I certainly did.

[DrunkSister]

The Hound died there, in my arms. You may have seen a big black stallion in our stables. That was his warhorse, Stranger. A blasphemous name. We prefer to call him Driftwood, as he was found beside the river. I fear he has his former master’s nature.”

The horse. She had seen the stallion, had heard it kicking, but she had not understood. Destriers were trained to kick and bite. In war they were a weapon, like the men who rode them. Like the Hound. “It is true, then,” she said dully. “Sandor Clegane is dead.”
“He is at rest.” The Elder Brother paused. “You are young, child. I have counted four-and-forty name days... which makes me more than twice your age, I think. Would it surprise you to learn that I was once a knight?” etc. etc. etc.

All in all, I was a sad man. When I was not fighting, I was drunk. My life was writ in red, in blood and wine.”
“When did it change?” asked Brienne.
“When I died in the Battle of the Trident. etc. etc. etc.

We are all born naked, so I suppose it was only fitting that I come into my second life the same way. I spent the next ten years in silence.”

“I see.” Brienne did not know why he was telling her all of this, or what else she ought to say.
“Do you?” He leaned forward, his big hands on his knees. “If so, give up this quest of yours. The Hound is dead, and in any case he never had your Sansa Stark. As for this beast who wears his helm, he will be found and hanged.

The reason people don't notice is because they don't think to look. But once Sandor Clegane appears again, they will reread and find that the clues were there all along. :)

IMO same case as with Lysa poisoning Jon. Some rare souls have guessed just from AGoT, the clues were there all along.

ETA: in the epilogue we find out that he is alive because he has become High Septon :P

[Newstar]

In light of the release of the Arya chapter, which contains an 11-year-old being molested twice and seducing someone three times her age with practiced ease, and which was not identified as potentially controversial--despite clearly having proven to be very controversial, given fan reactions to Arya's sexualization--I think we really need to revisit our speculation about the "controversial" aspect of Sansa's chapter. If it's the Sansa chapter, and not the Arya chapter, that was identified as the potentially controversial one by someone familiar with both, then the Sansa chapter must be way more fucked up.

I had thought before that the Sansa chapter couldn't contain anything too wild, as it was suggested it might only be controversial in some quarters of the fandom (and my thought was that anything too crazy would definitely piss off the fandom in its entirety). After reading the Arya chapter, though, all bets are off. I'm thinking the Sansa chapter has to contain Sansa having sex under fucked-up circumstances (with Littlefinger, probably), Sansa being raped, Sansa participating in Sweetrobin's murder, or something equally shocking and intense to top the Arya chapter. I don't think Sansa dies--although who knows?--but it's going to be something very big and something very nasty: for some, it's going to be throw-the-book-across-the-room-and-vow-never-to-pick-it-up-again nasty. Sex dreams. sex talks, etc. are not going to cut it in the controversy department.

[Winnief]

Sex dreams. sex talks, etc. are not going to cut it in the controversy department.

I'm not sure about that-sometimes on fantasy forums sexually empowered women are seen as somehow more controversial than sexual violence towards women is. Seven only know why.

[Gwydden]

I'm not sure about that-sometimes on fantasy forums sexually empowered women are seen as somehow more controversial than sexual violence towards women is. Seven only know why.

Since when teenagers talking, thinking, and dreaming about sex is considered controversial? Like, at all? I always thought it had to be something more in that Sansa chapter, if it truly was to cause controversy.