Role in WoW: Sansa Stark (Spoilers)

[Petyr Patter]

We shall see who drew the wrong lesson, and I have no need to read a story I am already familiar with. Perhaps you should read up on your history tho, Jackson won 2 presidential elections, your own point seems to argue in favor of Sansa being able to marry and rule.

No need to take things personally, though I did state "you." A lot of posters here are not Americans. There might some Frenchman whose knowledge of American presidents begins and ends with George Washington. Sort of how my knowledge of French presidents begins and ends with Charles de Gaulle. So, the post was maybe for your benefit, but certainly for other readers who might not know the story.

While Jackson did win the elections for a variety of reasons, his original marriage to Rachel did not stand. He had to remarry her later, this time making sure all the paperwork was in order. The lynchpin of Baelish's plan (which I am very found of saying is lie: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99141-bad-news-baelish-or-purple-wedding-20/ ) is predicated on Harold and Sansa having children to inherit both titles. Without clarity on the legality of the marriage, would the Knights of the Vale be so quick and willing to pledge their armies to retaking Winterfell? Absolutely not. Even if Baelish's plan is on the level, he needs Tyrion dead. The crazy Lysa who wanted to marry Sansa to Robert said it was necessary to wait until the Imp was dead, even for a "secret wedding." To much would be at stake to leave chargers of bigamy and bastardy open.

[Colonel Green]

Without clarity on the legality of the marriage, would the Knights of the Vale be so quick and willing to pledge their armies to retaking Winterfell? Absolutely not.

While, as I've already said, I don't think that Littlefinger's plan is actually going to advance to anywhere near this point, I don't think the legality of the marriage is that huge a factor in terms of wrangling the Vale into the war itself. Royce's faction wants into the war without any sort of quid pro quo at all (ironically, the people who are Littlefinger's strongest opponents at the moment are actually those who would be the most strongly in favour of fulfilling the next stage of his plan).

[ejhawman]

All of the first five options are plausible. Keep in mind, though, that while Sansa may set LF's death in motion, she will not wield a blade, or likely even poison. She should turn his own lessons against him, manipulating the Lords into killing him. But I don't think things will get that far during TWOW.

[aryagonnakill#2]

No need to take things personally, though I did state "you." A lot of posters here are not Americans. There might some Frenchman whose knowledge of American presidents begins and ends with George Washington. Sort of how my knowledge of French presidents begins and ends with Charles de Gaulle. So, the post was maybe for your benefit, but certainly for other readers who might not know the story.

While Jackson did win the elections for a variety of reasons, his original marriage to Rachel did not stand. He had to remarry her later, this time making sure all the paperwork was in order. The lynchpin of Baelish's plan (which I am very found of saying is lie: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99141-bad-news-baelish-or-purple-wedding-20/ ) is predicated on Harold and Sansa having children to inherit both titles. Without clarity on the legality of the marriage, would the Knights of the Vale be so quick and willing to pledge their armies to retaking Winterfell? Absolutely not. Even if Baelish's plan is on the level, he needs Tyrion dead. The crazy Lysa who wanted to marry Sansa to Robert said it was necessary to wait until the Imp was dead, even for a "secret wedding." To much would be at stake to leave chargers of bigamy and bastardy open.

Were not going to agree, but I think its a pretty weak argument to simply state your opinion as fact.

"Without clarity on the legality of the marriage, would the Knights of the Vale be so quick and willing to pledge their armies to retaking Winterfell? Absolutely not. "

I would not care, nor would anyone who was looking for a cause, any cause to go to war. The winner determines what is right, and what marriages are recognized.

[StormBornQueen]

LF's grasp on the Vale seems tenacious at best...and knowing him he probably has some other twisted plan up his sleeve.

Yes, he has at present won over all but 3 of the lords in the Vale, but his seat on the Eyrie is still quite shaky. He stated himself that the lords would welcome Harry as Lord of the Eyrie as they had never welcomed him (after all Harry is Jon Arryn's heir)

Would it be completely crazy for me to suggest that LF may be set on marrying Sansa down the road?

She is beautiful after all, and the only woman he has ever loved is her mother. His kisses are also far more than fatherly.

If he would wed her, he would have the North, and -possibly- the Vale as well. Makes for a handsome dowry.

[Nic.]

LF's weak point is clearly Sansa and GRMM has repeatedly had his characters say that love often lead to a man's own death, so i definitely see Sansa eventually killing him. I think the vale lords will somehow, someway declare for her, but i don't see their armies marching south. At some point people are going to have to start marching north, just like Osha said in GOT about Robb marching the wrong way.

[Skagosi High Chef]

LF's weak point is clearly Sansa and GRMM has repeatedly had his characters say that love often lead to a man's own death, so i definitely see Sansa eventually killing him. I think the vale lords will somehow, someway declare for her, but i don't see their armies marching south. At some point people are going to have to start marching north, just like Osha said in GOT about Robb marching the wrong way.

LF does not love Sansa. He is using her for political reasons and maybe to get revenge on both house Stark and Tully.

[Nic.]

LF does not love Sansa. He is using her for political reasons and maybe to get revenge on both house Stark and Tully.

ok maybe not love, but he's definitely obsessed with her.

[aryagonnakill#2]

ok maybe not love, but he's definitely obsessed with her.

Don't doubt yourself, she will be his downfall.

[Carter209]

I'll throw my hat in the ring here...

Sansa, along with us, meets Harry the Heir for the first time in her first Winds chapter. We see clearly that he's the second coming of Robert Baratheon; Sansa suspects what he is but has learned to keep her suspicions to herself. Everything goes great. Harry begins to fall hard for Sansa, while Sansa herself has realized that not all are "Prince Charming", and is very wary of Harry. What breaks this impasse? The unveiling of Rickon to the world. This pushes Sansa to act to protect her little brother, and the way she does that is to, somewhat, derail LF's plans. She goes to Harry and reveals herself; he may or may not know by this time. She gives him an ultimatum: You can marry me if you fight for me and my brother. Sweetrobin doesn't need to be dead for this to happen as Sansa already has him wrapped around her finger, so if both her and Harry ask him to send the Knights of the Vale to war, they'll go. LF is disposed of the night before the wedding between Harry and Sansa, either by Sansa/poison or Sweetrobin/Moon Door. As the men of the Vale leave, Ungregor arrives on Cersei's orders and attacks Sansa whom Cersei wants dead for the murder of Joffrey. The people that arrive to oppose him are Sandor, Brienne, Jaime, and the Blackfish, and they fight Ungregor and kill him for good. As the book ends, Sansa has assumed complete control of the Vale through both Sweetrobin, as Lord, and Harry, as heir-apparent and leader of the Vale armies.

EDIT: For another scenario, we see Sansa get swept up in the Varys-LF showdown over Aegon because both Aegon and Harry fall for Sansa, leaving Harry to embody LF and a little Brandon Stark in order to fight Aegon for Sansa's hand.

[heathers]

I can go along with HtH marrying sansa with them knowing the others real identity. If Dany is headed to the vale and tyrion survives that far then LFs plan falls apart. Rickon showing up wont make him pleased either.

I also like the theory of jamie keeping an oath to unCat...to meet his demise soon after (maybe toasted). Storylines must soon converge and in westeros to set up a battle against the Others and a end to this story. To me theVale seems to be the most likely spot to start as it is so far untouched.

[heathers]

I can go along with HtH marrying sansa with them knowing the others real identity. If Dany is headed to the vale and tyrion survives that far then LFs plan falls apart. Rickon showing up wont make him pleased either.

I also like the theory of jamie keeping an oath to unCat...to meet his demise soon after (maybe toasted). Storylines must soon converge and in westeros to set up a battle against the Others and a end to this story. To me theVale seems to be the most likely spot to start as it is so far untouched.

[Federico]

Someone mentioned Sansa's hairnet from the purple wedding, which set me thinking. Unlike Arya, Sansa has no skill with weapons. Her mind and the poison in her hairnet are all she has to kill with, should she need to.

If I were LF, I would ensure that it were destroyed to eliminate a loose end and a potential weapon that could be used on him. Also, I wouldn't want her using it on anyone else as it's a rare poison and its use might attract unwanted scrutiny.

Sansa's future depends much but not entirely on LF. His endgame remains a mystery wrapped up in ...

So, Shadrick (that Knight that had been with Brienne, was Searching for Sansa) could, as frequently suggested, a source of drama for Sansa. Also, it seems very likely to me that Lady Olenna of House Tyrell knows that Sansa is in the Vale with LF. If other Tyrells know, then it's more likely other Tyrells knew of the Purple Wedding conspiracy, not just her.

Back to LF, he strikes me as very self-aware, unless my TV memory is overriding my book memory. I'm referring to his acknowledging to his whores his love for who turned out to be Cat, that he wouldn't play other peoples' game, but rather his. He also seemed to realize that his love for Cat was the greatest weakness and greatest source of foolishness in his life. I also suspect he's very self-disciplined. So, I believe he is very aware of his risk per Sansa. But just as homeland security only has to fail once for a terrorist to succeed, LF's self-awareness and self-discipline need only fail momentarily for... And the kisses and info reveals to Sansa may be examples of such moments, like one or more in the future that might undo him.

Well, I have no grand predictions for this post, just these little thoughts.

Cheers,

Fed

[Chuck Snow]

Call me wrong. Please do, but I strongly believe Sansa's role in WoW will be for her to reunite with Lady. And with Lady confirmed dead ...........

[aryagonnakill#2]

Call me wrong. Please do, but I strongly believe Sansa's role in WoW will be for her to reunite with Lady. And with Lady confirmed dead ...........

I could call you wrong if thats what you want... but I'd rather you give some sort of explanation for this theory?

[Skagosi High Chef]

I could call you wrong if thats what you want... but I'd rather you give some sort of explanation for this theory?

Call me wrong. Please do, but I strongly believe Sansa's role in WoW will be for her to reunite with Lady. And with Lady confirmed dead ...........

I would love to see Sansa reunited with Lady.

[Chuck Snow]

I could call you wrong if thats what you want... but I'd rather you give some sort of explanation for this theory?

It has to do with a life energy connection with her Direwolf. Dead Wolf means Dead Stark.

[the andorran]

Why is it that in discussions of the annulment of the Sansa/Tyrion marriage, Tyrion possibly being a bigamist never comes up? Obviously, the Lannisters didn't think that his having married a nobody at age thirteen was an impediment, but I've always kept it in the back of my mind that this could somehow come into play.

Edited for autocorrect whoops.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Why is it that in discussions of the annulment of the Sansa/Tyrion marriage, Tyrion possibly being a bigamist never comes up? Obviously, the Lannisters didn't think that his having married a nobody at age thirteen was an impediment, but I've always kept it in the back of my mind that this could so ehow come into play.

I only recently saw someone post about this and it blew my mind. They posted that LF could potentially have her, Tysha that is. Or at the very least knowledge of her to say that his marriage to Sansa was void. After all whores do go to brothels.

[Chuck Snow]

I only recently saw someone post about this and it blew my mind. They posted that LF could potentially have her, Tysha that is. Or at the very least knowledge of her to say that his marriage to Sansa was void. After all whores do go to brothels.

This is a Fantastic Theory. Even if its not yours.