The Monomyth of Jon Snow

[Muggle]

The Goddess/Father figure parts are definitely the hardest to work out. Generally, the goddess is meant to represent love, nurturing, support, devotion, etc., while the father represents power, knowledge and transcendence. It's sort of a yin-yang dualism thing going on. I agree that Melisandre could be the goddess and Bloodraven is obviously a very strong candidate to be the father god figure. I suppose that Lyanna and Rhaegar as the two is more my personal preference, especially given that individually they represent the Ice and Fire dichotomy, which goes back to the "master of two worlds" step. I also think it'd be poignant for Jon to learn the truth directly from his actual parents instead of a third party. But I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being some other figure(s) entirely.

A post from Fire Eater that has stuck with me.

Somehow I[Jon] know I have to go down there, but I dont want to. Im afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but its not them Im afraid of. I scream that Im not a Stark, that this isnt my place, but its no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream."

The thing that he actually fears is the truth. We find out what is down in the crypts.

The mention of dreams reminded him. I[bran] dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.

And why was that? Luwin peered through his tube.

It was something to do about Jon, I think. The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so than any of the other crow dreams.

When the time comes, I will tell him myself.

He will meet an image/apparition of Ned who tells Jon the truth about his parentage, like Arthur's foster father, Sir Ector, told Arthur about his true parentage. He may even possibly meet his mother, Lyanna.

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

How do you think about his warg/skinchanging abilities after his time in Ghost during his coma (so after his resurrection)? Could that relate to the master of two worlds? As everyone loves to point out, Vatamyr notes Jon as a strong skinchanger.

[Gertrude]

We've seen people communicate with the dead before. Jaime and Joanna, for instance. I agree that the weirwood network is probably going to be the medium, but I don't really see anything that precludes him seeing Lyanna and/or Rhaegar themselves.

I had forgotten about Joanna. That was a dream, although a very strange dream. OK, there's a small possibility I guess, but am not entirely convinced.

[Gertrude]

By the network. the same way Bran saw Ned in WF

I guess I misunderstood your other post. I thought you were saying Jon would physically have to go to the Isle of Faces to get this knowledge. Apologies.

[Gertrude]

Sorry - triple post.

You mentioned the pink letter as one of his trials, but I keep thinking of it as a temptation. True, he failed to resist that temptation, but he also failed that as a test. His decision there was what directly led to his death, the final straw. So while you can argue about whether he was right or wrong to pursue Ramsay, objectively it looks like he failed (IMO). Is it common to have the hero fail his tests/temptations?

eta: hmm, you could qualify Ygritte as a temptation too, so maybe the letter is more like a trial. Or do they have to be mutually exclusive? I'm not asking in narrative terms, but wondering more about examples from other works and how it relates to Campbell (whom I really should read. It gets talked about constantly so that I am familiar with it, but have never actually read)

[Fire Eater]

To add to what Muggle posted, apotheosis or attainment of the boon comes after atonement with the father. I think the man who has been the closest to a father to Jon is Ned. Jon gets the boon, the knowledge of his heritage, after he meets with Ned.

The Refusal of the Return

Jon after learning the truth may wonder if he wants to go on living. Jon now has the boon, the knowledge of his heritage, that will restore and bring peace to the realm, but he is hesitant on bestowing that knowledge upon his fellow man, for likely obvious reasons.

The Second Threshold

Jon tries to share that knowledge with the rest of the world, likely Dany and her group. Dany is of course skeptical after having dealt with a claimant who also claimed to be Rhaegar's son. She may pose a challenge to prove Jon's heritage that leads to the next phase of the monomyth.

Master of the Two Worlds

Jon has already mastered a direwolf, and I think that he will also master/mount a dragon. Just as Jon's song being "the song of ice and fire" suggests, Jon will be the master of the two worlds of ice and fire: the direwolf and the dragon, the king who sits the IT in the South and the KitN.

There's also another thread that goes over this.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Sorry - triple post.

You mentioned the pink letter as one of his trials, but I keep thinking of it as a temptation. True, he failed to resist that temptation, but he also failed that as a test. His decision there was what directly led to his death, the final straw. So while you can argue about whether he was right or wrong to pursue Ramsay, objectively it looks like he failed (IMO). Is it common to have the hero fail his tests/temptations?

eta: hmm, you could qualify Ygritte as a temptation too, so maybe the letter is more like a trial. Or do they have to be mutually exclusive? I'm not asking in narrative terms, but wondering more about examples from other works and how it relates to Campbell (whom I really should read. It gets talked about constantly so that I am familiar with it, but have never actually read)

Actually yes, it is. It's not necessary for the hero to "pass" all of his trials. The important point is that he has them, not that he passes every single one.

Master of the Two Worlds

Jon has already mastered a direwolf, and I think that he will also master/mount a dragon. Just as Jon's song being "the song of ice and fire" suggests, Jon will be the master of the two worlds of ice and fire: the direwolf and the dragon, the king who sits the IT and the KitN.

I can actually see this, if for no other reason than because explicitly mastering both a wolf and a dragon would be tangible manifestation of the "two worlds."

[The Sleeper]

A few thoughts:

There is the trap of trying to fit the story into the pattern, rather than seeing a pattern within the story, but I think the general idea applies.

I think an argument could be made that Jon has gone through the full circle of these stages with his ascendance to lord commander. Maester Aemon and his motto kill the boy and let the man be born could fit into the father figure, with Sam being the comforting and understanding godess figure. The flight could be reversed; rather than him fleeing the comfort, he sends the two that provided it away.

It doesn't preclude it from being a circle, within a lagrer similar circle, but I am under the impression that his "boon" the second time around will be to become undead. In conditions that are becoming unsurvivable by humans, having no need for sleep or sustenance might be essential to Jon fullfilling his destiny.

The vibe I get from Jon's arc is that of a martyr or a sacrifice. It could be Martin's commentary on heroes, while being a subversion of the trope.

[coil]

About the Meeting with the Father and according to what Fire Eater wrote, allow a little crackpot: what if Jon and Eddard are destined to meet again?

I mean, Eddard's bones are still nowhere to be found. They are mentioned here and there, and knowing GRRM's taste for surprises I'm pretty sure that lady Dustin either a) missed them during their passing b ) won't find them since another road has been taken (thanks to a Davos chapter in ADwD we know that Ned passed through the Sisters to reach the North).

There's also the seventy-nine sentinels story, where Lord Ryswell decides at the end of his days to be entombed into the Wall so that he could stay with his son.

It would also be nice since if it wasn't for Joffrey... Eddard was destined to the Wall.

This said, I didn't know anything about monomyths or such (I only know a little about Propp and fables, guess that's pretty basic), so I can say that today I learned something new... so thanks.

Just other two new things and the Kindly Man will be satisfied.

[jet199]

In the godswood she found her broomstick sword where she had left it, and carried it to the heart tree. There she knelt. Red leaves rustled. Red eyes peered inside her. The eyes of the gods. "Tell me what to do, you gods," she prayed.
For a long moment there was no sound but the wind and the water and the creak of leaf and limb. And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf. Gooseprickles rose on Arya's skin, and for an instant she felt dizzy. Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father's voice. "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives," he said.

"But there is no pack," she whispered to the weirwood. Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall. "I'm not even me now, I'm Nan."
"You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you."

Ned is roaming around the weirwood web, dishing out advise, so he could well appear to Jon as he seems to have done to Arya, and Bran in a dream, already.

Jon just needs to pray harder or become a greenseer.

[Ser Not Appearing]

I've often wondered if Jon's real test is saving the Night's Watch and that after this betrayal he will want to turn away (he already did, to an extent, with the Pink Letter). I can see him coming back and wanting to, (or being forced to), walk away from the Night's Watch for a time, only to return and save it from the Others, (and/or idiots within the NW), somehow.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I've often wondered if Jon's real test is saving the Night's Watch and that after this betrayal he will want to turn away (he already did, to an extent, with the Pink Letter). I can see him coming back and wanting to, (or being forced to), walk away from the Night's Watch for a time, only to return and save it from the Others, (and/or idiots within the NW), somehow.

That's also possible. I think the twist with the return-with-the-boon is that Jon won't be wanted when he returns, and what he has to say won't be welcomed, which is kind of the opposite of how it's supposed to work, i.e. the hero is welcomed as a hero when he returns and people are generally positive about whatever wisdom he's brought back with him.

The vibe I get from Jon's arc is that of a martyr or a sacrifice. It could be Martin's commentary on heroes, while being a subversion of the trope.

Martyrdom doesn't preclude Jon from following this arc; as noted, Christ, perhaps the ultimate martyr, also followed it.

[Ser Not Appearing]

That's also possible. I think the twist with the return-with-the-boon is that Jon won't be wanted when he returns, and what he has to say won't be welcomed, which is kind of the opposite of how it's supposed to work, i.e. the hero is welcomed as a hero when he returns and people are generally positive about whatever wisdom he's brought back with him.

Rambling alert, but:

I could see a scenario where they chase him off, he exists north of the wall and gathers XYZ information... meanwhile the watch suffers in some way such that when he returns with XYZ information it is accepted. Not quite the exact way you'd envision this point coming to fruition... but if the boon is information or fighting methodoogy/where-withall that he gathers... it kinda fits. That is to say - they want (and celebrate) what he has, not Jon himself, but what he has is a reflection of him because only he could have gotten it... so in a round about way...

[kiasyd]

Great post! It's been noted before that Jon and other characters fit Campbell's monomyth, even tough the story isn't complete, patterns can be identified.

Particularly about Melisandre, I don't think she actually fits anywhere - yet. There is no temptation from her so far, perhaps later on... However, Stannis offer of legitmization, lordship and Winterfell fits perfectly.

[Daughter of the North]

There are a some people that say that Jon (or Aegon or someone else) is Azor Ahai, but I think that they're forgetting what Maester Aemon said to Sam, he said Melisandre was wrong, Dany was Azor Ahai, the Prince (Princess) that was promised, everybody missunderstood the prophecy because dragons are not male or female, they're both. So, he was wrong or it was just another theory?

[The Sleeper]

There are a some people that say that Jon (or Aegon or someone else) is Azor Ahai, but I think that they're forgetting what Maester Aemon said to Sam, he said Melisandre was wrong, Dany was Azor Ahai, the Prince (Princess) that was promised, everybody missunderstood the prophecy because dragons are not male or female, they're both. So, he was wrong or it was just another theory?

Welcome to the forum.

In the passage you are quoting, Aemon spoke about an error in the translation, misdirecting everyone to look for a prince rather than a princess. To make his point though he speaks about the gender of dragons, being interchangeable, thereby equating the word for dragon in valyrian with the word for prince and making both gender-neutral. Combining the pieces that we have the prophesy becomes the prince (dragon) that was promised has three heads. Or, that there are three Azor Ahais. One of them is Dany, another is Jon.

Anyway that's my pet theory. As far as Aemon goes, like all characters in the book he has limited information so he could well be wrong, though in my view he is correct, if only partialy. Everything remains a theory until proven by published material and even then I am fairly sure Martin will leave things open to interpretation.

In any case, the current OP does not refer to Jon being AA, but rather his arc having the literary characteristics of a heroes arc, which may or may not be relevent to him being AA, cause after we have no clue what AA is supposed to do.

[Dragon Roast]

NIce post. Elements of the monomyth blueprint could apply to other characters as well, but Jon does seem to be hitting all the marks so far.

I wonder if the Supernatural Help he will get is ultimately Bran and not Bloodraven. Both brothers (like all the Stark children) are on their own hero quests. The intertwining of these quests and the monomyth mashups that are possible present a nice way to play with the narrative

Bran has already reached out to Jon through Ghost and may be his guide during his Apotheosis time. Perhaps Jon will meet the Godness (his mother) and his Father through Bran sharing his Weirwood visions with his brother. I could see Bran helping Jon work his way through the blueprint with subversion of the form along the way.

Your post provides another fun way to think about the books so far and the possible directions that the story might take. Thanks.

[MtnLion]

I like it, Apple. I believe that Val will play a very important part, and Melisandre will be an antagonist. It is only a feeling based upon small hints that I get from the way that GRRM presents them in the story, thus far. Bran certainly stands to be an enormous help in Jon obtaining his boon. The return trip will probably rely heavily on Val. Arya (and Sansa) and her training will help in no small way, but possibly much later in Jon's arc.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Oh this is pretty damn wiggy. I really dont have much to add (at the moment), but i really like this outline. I also agree that Jon following the Hero's Journey doesnt mean he will pass all the tests.

[Lone Star Pate]

Great post. I didn't make the connection between Bloodraven and Jon Snow through the ravens until you pointed it out. I think you couldn't be any closer to the truth either. Jon Snow is the archetypal hero that we find in mythology and we want to see him fulfill the proverbial prophecy.