Warrior tiers

[Dana Holland]

joff is crown prince I doubt that show him up

[Ramsay Gimp]

Boros Blount can't be that bad - he's no badass but there has to be some modicum of skill to be included in the Kingsguard

[ckal]

Jaime said something like he had been a mediocre fighter once, but years of drinking and eating with not enough exercise had made him effectively useless. And he's a coward to boot.

He's good for taste testing food for poison.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Jaime said something like he had been a mediocre fighter once, but years of drinking and eating with not enough exercise had made him effectively useless. And he's a coward to boot.

Tasting the King's food is a vital skill for any true Kingsguard! :cool4:

[The Fresh PtwP]

Thanks for all the responses but now to set some things straight.

Tiers are mainly used in fighting games to show that if two players with equal skill play the one using the higher tiered character will win the majority. (Although I do read naruto...)

Common misconception: someone in a higher tier will always defeat those in lower tiers...FALSE! Barristan said it best with his 50/50 outlook on fights. This is especially true the more skilled the opponent. Say Arthur Dayne blinks or stumbles at the wrong time fighting someone like Sandor, it doesn't matter that he is higher tier he would most likely be missing a head.

Rhaegar I would put in A tier. He wounded an injured Robert and Barristan says he was amazing.

Finally the last time im going to bring up Joff and Robb. Personally I think Joff won for the reasons I stated. Regardless we KNOW it was a close fight...meaning they have roughly the same skill...meaning they should naturally be in the same tier.

[Sansa_Stark]

Jaime said something like he had been a mediocre fighter once, but years of drinking and eating with not enough exercise had made him effectively useless. And he's a coward to boot.

Jaime thinks he was fat, aging and never more than ordinary.

However, Jorah cites him beating Blount as an accomplishment in a tourney to Dany, although I think that was playing on her naivite.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Thanks for all the responses but now to set some things straight.

Tiers are mainly used in fighting games to show that if two players with equal skill play the one using the higher tiered character will win the majority. (Although I do read naruto...)

Common misconception: someone in a higher tier will always defeat those in lower tiers...FALSE! Barristan said it best with his 50/50 outlook on fights. This is especially true the more skilled the opponent. Say Arthur Dayne blinks or stumbles at the wrong time fighting someone like Sandor, it doesn't matter that he is higher tier he would most likely be missing a head.

Rhaegar I would put in A tier. He wounded an injured Robert and Barristan says he was amazing.

Finally the last time im going to bring up Joff and Robb. Personally I think Joff won for the reasons I stated. Regardless we KNOW it was a close fight...meaning they have roughly the same skill...meaning they should naturally be in the same tier.

Is wounding an already injured fighter considered a thing that makes someone a great fighter? I don't think Barristan said Rhaegar was amazing. He was he knew how to use a sword and was talented. But the likes of the best warriors would beat him and the second tier warriors would be evenly match probably coming out on top.

I always figured Rhaegar was probably a technical fighter. He knew what he was supposed to do but he didn't have the instincts that others had that would put him on top so even some of the lower tiered people would have a chance to beat him.

[The Fresh PtwP]

Is wounding an already injured fighter considered a thing that makes someone a great fighter? I don't think Barristan said Rhaegar was amazing. He was he knew how to use a sword and was talented. But the likes of the best warriors would beat him and the second tier warriors would be evenly match probably coming out on top.

I always figured Rhaegar was probably a technical fighter. He knew what he was supposed to do but he didn't have the instincts that others had that would put him on top so even some of the lower tiered people would have a chance to beat him.

Barristan said Rhaegar was eexcellent at everything he did fighting included. Also I would argue that blood lusted Robert is a bit more than just a "fighter".

[Sansa_Stark]

Barristan said Rhaegar was a puissant warrior. Now, he could have been honeying it up for Dany as he then proceeds to say "lol no, he wasn't peerless" essentially.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Barristan said Rhaegar was eexcellent at everything he did fighting included. Also I would argue that blood lusted Robert is a bit more than just a "fighter".

I don't think that excellent is the world Barristan uses when describing Rhaegar's fighting skills. Dany thinks Rhaegar was an excellent and amazing fighter but Barristan wants to watch his words when telling Dany things and not just agree to everything so he says Rhaegar was a most puissant fighter especially since he is essentially comparing him to Arthur Dayne. But I don't think excellent comes to Barristan's mind when he uses that.

What do you mean by blood lusted Robert is a bit more than just a fighter?

[The Fresh PtwP]

I don't think that excellent is the world Barristan uses when describing Rhaegar's fighting skills. Dany thinks Rhaegar was an excellent and amazing fighter but Barristan wants to watch his words when telling Dany things and not just agree to everything so he says Rhaegar was a most puissant fighter. But I don't think excellent comes to Barristan's mind when he uses that.

What do you mean by blood lusted Robert is a bit more than just a fighter?

Don't have books handy but Barristan DEFINITELY praises Rhaegar just unsure what exact words he uses.

He got the title Demon of the Trident for how viciously he fought. Every description of his martial ability makes him sound like the Warriors son. At the time he was easily one of the deadliest men on the planet. Wounding him is still an accomplishment.

Edit: (looks up puissant) ok you guys are seriously splitting hairs here...

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

He got the title Demon of the Trident for how viciously he fought. Every description of his martial ability makes him sound like the Warriors son. At the time he was easily one of the deadliest men on the planet. Wounding him is still an accomplishment.

I agree he is called the Demon of the Trident. Rhaegar wounded an already wounded Robert.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Don't have books handy but Barristan DEFINITELY praises Rhaegar just unsure what exact words he uses.

He got the title Demon of the Trident for how viciously he fought. Every description of his martial ability makes him sound like the Warriors son. At the time he was easily one of the deadliest men on the planet. Wounding him is still an accomplishment.

Edit: (looks up puissant) ok you guys are seriously splitting hairs here...

It's not that we are splitting hairs. Barristan had just been corrected by Dany about calling Viserys King when he first called him Prince. So he seems hesitant about what he tells her. like Strongboar says he says he was most puissant than goes and start talking about how their is no such thing as a warrior without peer. Anyone can win or lose a fight. Then Jorah starts talking about how sword win battles and Rhaegar knew how to use one which is something that Dany wants to hear about her brother. Then Barristan has to watch his words again on the subject.

No one is downing how good Rhaegar is just that he wasn't as excellent as had been claimed.

I also just feel that it is odd that Rhaegar seems to be such a talked about dead character in the books and gushed over for his fighting abilities. When the only tournament he ever won was Harrenhall-jousting. We never hear about him in any personal battles that prove himself a warrior. Maybe we will get that later. The only time we hear about him taking command of anything is the Trident and we know how that turned out.

[The Fresh PtwP]

1. Their isn't such a thing as a warrior without peer.

2. Puissant=powerful on my thesaurus app. And really? powerful warrior =/= excellent warrior sounds like splitting hairs.

3. I put Rhaegar a tier below Robert so I don't even know what we're arguing. If you're stating that Rhaegar is overrated...it's possible but the text (Barristans accounts, Jorah's account, the fact that the RhaeMan injured Robert) point that he was really really good.

4. At the very least Barristan rode hard against him in the Tourney because he wishes he would've won and be able to prevent the mess Rhaegar makes.

[CosimaistheHottest]

1. Their isn't such a thing as a warrior without peer.

2. Puissant=powerful on my thesaurus app. And really? powerful warrior =/= excellent warrior sounds like splitting hairs.

3. I put Rhaegar a tier below Robert so I don't even know what we're arguing. If you're stating that Rhaegar is overrated...it's possible but the text (Barristans accounts, Jorah's account, the fact that the RhaeMan injured Robert) point that he was really really good.

4. At the very least Barristan rode hard against him in the Tourney because he wishes he would've won and be able to prevent the mess Rhaegar makes.

I know that there isn't a such thing as a warrior without peer. It's the fact that Barristan starts saying this because Dany thinks he's this amazing/mystical/exceptional warrior. When he essentially could have just left it at most puissant.

It's not that. I just don't think Barristan truly means powerful. Powerful is Robert Baratheon. Powerful is Arthur Dayne. Powerful is Barristan Selmy. Rhaegar is not that. IMO. Yours is entirely up to you.

Rhaegar wounding an possibly already wounded Robert makes him a good fighter. This is like Lyn Cobray killed an already mortally wounded Lewyn Martell. (P.S. He doesn't like to hear that messes with his street cred about how good he is.) Really. It's possible that he just reopened his old wound that he got before especially since he was fine enough and gave his own maester to treat Barristan and was there for the bodies for Rhaegar's children to be presented to him so he couldn't have been too long after Ned.

I didn't say he wasn't a good jouster. I just said his fighting skills are weren't amazingggg. We were talking about his fighting skills.

[Roddy the Ruin]

I just wanted to make a ranking system of the warriors throughout the series all fighters are in their prime. Here we go:

S tier - Legendary status and badass epitaph required. Arthur Dayne, Barristan, Jaime Lannister, Robert Baratheon.

A tier - Oberyn, the Cleganes, (probably) Garlan, Victarion, Halfhand, Syrio*

B tier - Bronn, Loras, Mance, Beric the Lightning Lord, Thoros, Jorah, Asha

C tier - Ned, Stannis, Renly, Belwas*, Drogo*, Peck, Average Westrosi Knight

D tier - Kettlebacks, Duck, Aegon, Jon, Robb, Lancel, Joff,

F tier - Boros Blount, Puddles

What do you guys think?

*=would be higher on even footing (i.e. wearing armor)

I would move Jon and Robb up to C status and fAegon and Duck are unproven thus far but other than that not bad

[The Fallen]

` This post I'm about to paste is from my first actual topic. (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/69396-westeros-all-stars/?hl=%2Bwesteros+%2Bstars) It was about All Star teams of fighters. 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams.

First Team All-Star

Arthur Dayne 'The Sword of the Morning' - (I'm going on the testimony of many of Westeros' fighters that Dayne was great. He was also a member of the Kingsguard when it meant something. Not to mention that he almost survived a fight where he was outnumbered. Had Howland Reed not interfered when he did, Dayne kills Ned and then Howland)

Barristan Selmy 'The Bold' - (A member of the Kingsguard, fought great in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and slew Maelys Blackfyre, rescued King Aerys during the Defiance of Duskendale, killed Ser Simon Toyne of the Kingswood Brotherhood in single combat and he also fought valiantly in the Battle of the Trident)

Sandor Clegane 'The Hound' - (His combination of size, strength and ruthlessness makes him a tough fighter, he fought well in the Battle of the Blackwater before being scared off by fire and he's had numerous fights were he's been at a disadvantage and acquitted himself well)

Jaime Lannister 'The Kingslayer' - (His sheer ability makes him a top fighter, as a youngster he fought well against the Kingswood Brotherhood and was knighted by none other than Ser Arthur Dayne for his performance, he's youngest-ever member of the Kingsguard, fought well at the beginning of the War of the Five Kings before he was captured)

Robert Baratheon - (He's a big, strong ruthless fighter who enjoys fighting, fought well during the Rebellion named after him, killed Prince Rhaegar during a one-on-one battle at the Trident)

Second Team All-Star

Gregor Clegane 'The Mountain that Rides' - (He's here not so much for his skill, but his size, strength and brutality is simply too much for most fighters)

Yohn Royce 'Bronze Yohn' - (I might have him too high as not much is known of his accomplishments)

Oberyn Martell 'The Red Viper' - (I have him here mostly because of his performance against The Mountain, where he proved to be a very skilled and intelligent fighter)

Gerold Hightower 'White Bull' - (I honestly don't know a lot about him either, but was a member of the Kingsguard when that meant something and is known for his immense strength)

Luwin Martell - (A member of the Kingsguard, led the Dornish army during the Battle of the Trident where he was mortally wounded before Lyn Corbray kills him)

Third Team All Star

Bronn - (He's a sellsword extreme, fought well against the mountain clans while escorting Tyrion to the Eyrie, killed Ser Vardis Egan as Tyrions champion in a trial by combat, fought well during the Battle of the Green Fork and Battle of the Blackwater for which he was knighted)

Garlan Tyrell - (He led the van for the combined Tyrell-Lannister army during the Battle of the Blackwater where he slew Ser Guyard Morrigan in single combat, he's known for practice-fighting against three or four opponents)

Loras Tyrell 'The Knight of Flowers' - (He fought in the Battle of the Blackwater beside his brother Garlan, he killed Ser Robar Royce and Ser Emmon Cuy as he mistakenly thought they had killed Renly Baratheon)

Jorah Mormont - (He fought well during the Greyjoy Rebellion and was one of the first men through the breach at the siege of Pyke and was knighted, killed one of Khal Drogo's bloodriders in single combat, and he led Dany's army to a win over the Yunkai)

If I were making up these teams today I would probably put Brienne ahead of Jorah and maybe raise Garlan Tyrell to the second team in place of the White Bull.

I had also made the beginning of Robert's Rebellion the cut-off. No fighters from an earlier time or from Essos. And I judged them in their prime, hence why I placed Bronze on the second team. He must have been a beast in his prime.