The Monkey

Deadwood

349 posts in this topic

It's Hearst for fuck's sake, not "Hurst". Interesting side-note: George Hearst was the father of Randalph Hearst, a newspaperman who served as the inspiration for the main character in Citizen Cane.



I always wondered why Swearengen, Bullock and Tolliver were so reluctant to kill the prick (Hearst). It's not like opportunities didn't present themselves, and with him dead, they could easily have bribed the Pinkertons in camp to leave (or done it before they arrived). Sure, his share-holders would've taken action, but it's hard to imagine that they would be more unreasonable at compromising than Hearst was.



EDIT: I love the little rants people have, like Al's in season one when cleaning up a bloodstain: "50 other fucking things I should be paying attention to. Rosiest prospects of my career, and here I am: on my fucking hands and knees discussing snippets of information with a fucking gimp."







Don't think I would of wanted a Deadwood movie, A 4th season fuck yeah but a movie....meh




Been re-watching as well. Last episode I watched was Wolcotts rampage at Joanies brothel.



The scene that comes before it with Wolcott and Tolliver is one of my favorites of the series.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ1Em1rrUTE






Brilliant, brilliant scene. I love the sequence that follows too, when Wolcott mutters to himself when talking down the thoroughfare: "Past hope. Past kindness or consideration. Past justice. Past satisfaction. Past warmth or cold or comfort. Past love. But past surprise? What an endlessly unfolding tedium life would then become."


Edited by The Monkey

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. I think the show was supposed to end with Al's death and Deadwood's capitulation to modern society.

It would end with the fire destroying nearly everything, as it happened in real life. I think that the real life Al survived it, but then again real life Al was very different.

One thing I've always wondered is why they brought Garrett Dillahunt back to play Wolcott after playing Jack McCall aka the murderer of Wild Bill.

They are both threats to society as a whole- McCall murders the old west (Bill), Wolcott murders what was at the time the new west, being an herald for Hearst's arrival, plus being an all around psychopath.

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As it turns out, David Milch just really liked him (or didn't feel like testing other actors). In an interview with AV Club GH talks about how DM initially approached him after season one to play Hearst but ultimately decided to keep him an offscreen threat (and age him up) and instead created the Wolcott character and offered that to him instead.

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Great show, amazing characters. Outside of the obvious: Al, Bullock & Jane were some great side characters: Ellsworth, Charlie Utter, etc etc

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The Reverend in season one was one of my favorite side stories. I felt so damn bad for that guy that I gotta say the actor was incredible.

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The scene when Al puts the reverend out of his misery while the doc is praying for that exact thig to happen is one of the best scenes in anything ever lol

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It's Hearst for fuck's sake, not "Hurst". Interesting side-note: George Hearst was the father of Randalph Hearst, a newspaperman who served as the inspiration for the main character in Citizen Cane.

It's Kane for fuck's sake, not 'Cane'. :P

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What I remember most about this show is re-watching it for the first time on DVD after it had ended. I picked up on so much that I missed the first time around it was shocking. Seriously about 1/3 of the dialogue went over my head when it aired.



If anyone here praising Deadwood has not seen John From Cincinnati, I highly recommend it. It's incredibly weird and even if it had been renewed for a second season I'm not sure it ever would have made sense. It has a lot of the Deadwood actors (Trixie, Ellsworth, Utter, McCall/Willcot off the top of my head) and was of course created by Milch after Deadwood ended. It's not as compelling as Deadwood, but it's still Milch writing. He's got a new Pilot for HBO I heard too, hopefully that'll turn into something.


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The Reverend in season one was one of my favorite side stories. I felt so damn bad for that guy that I gotta say the actor was incredible.





Yeah completely agree. I loved his sermons and preaching and I normally hate prayer scenes on television even if fictionalized. Really surprised that actor doesn't appear more often on television. I feel like Deadwood actors show up in a lot of places even outside of FX and HBO.



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He does actually get a good deal of work as a character actor. David Milch basically took 20 of Hollywood's best character actors and plopped them down in Deadwood. The result. Fan fucking-tastic!

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Another brilliant exchange:




- My holdings butt up against hers. I value efficiencies and economies of consolidation. Haven't I reason to nudge her toward a sale?


- Men of a certain caliber cannot allow fastidious morality to distract them from the exigencies of commerce, can they, Mr. Hearst? And did you heave up your responsibilities upon broad and reconciled shoulders?


- No.


- Perhaps then, rather, at this moment you are Socrates to my Alcibiades, taken it upon yourself to edify me.


- Are you saying you want to fuck me?


- What?


- Well, you keep calling yourself Alcibiades to my Socrates. Are you proposing some sort of homosexual connection between us?


- I forgot that part of the story.


- Wait.


- But, if I were courting you, Mr. Hearst, I claim no allure of my own, suggesting only the mutuality of our interests concerning the upcoming elections grants my suit some small virtue. As you gaze upon me, Sir, recall that some unions of convenience may outlast those conceived in passion.


- Get up off your knees.





It's Kane for fuck's sake, not 'Cane'. :P




Touché!


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It's Kane for fuck's sake, not 'Cane'. :P

Burn!

Stop arguing you pair of hoopleheads!!.

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One of my favorites is

"Jesus Christ Bullock....The world abounds in cunt of every kind including hers"

"Will I find you got a knife"

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WTF was HBO thinking when they cancelled that show? Completely, without a doubt, the best writing ever.

Its a little more complicated than that. HBO and Miltch have both remained very tight-lipped over what actually happened to end the show. The working theory is that HBO- unnerved with the high production costs and not-outstanding ratings -cancelled the show and threw Miltch a bone with "John From Cincinatti (basically verbal masterbation, one of the worst shows I have ever seen). My own theory- shared by many - is that Mitch was done writing Deadwood. He was extremely hands on and I think it wore on him when he obviously wanted to do other projects such as the aforementioned piece of shit JfC, Luck and the in-production The Money. All for HBO. I think Mitch went to HBO and said he did not want to do Deadwood anymore and that he had some other shows he wanted to develop so the two came to an arrangement to end the show after the 3rd season.

This makes more sense to me- Mitch could have talked them into another season and just didn't- instead he IMMEDIATELY produced another show (which, just to reiterate, was terrible). I think he was done and wanted to move on. He dangled the "movie" out there for a couple of years but once the cast disperses, its difficult to "get the band back together."

The counter to that theory is that ... really... between 2006 and 2011 HBO didn't make a single good decision with their series. Not a one. It was not until the moderate (and that's using the term loosely) success of Boardwalk Empire that put the network on the right track, only to be elevated by Game of Thrones which put the Network back at the top (and no, seriously, just stop with Newsroom- seriously, stop- its embarrassing at this point). The Deadwood Debacle would fit well into that narrative. Then again, so would allowing Mitch to make John from Shitcity.

Anyway...

I always wondered why Swearengen, Bullock and Tolliver were so reluctant to kill the prick (Hearst). It's not like opportunities didn't present themselves, and with him dead, they could easily have bribed the Pinkertons in camp to leave (or done it before they arrived). Sure, his share-holders would've taken action, but it's hard to imagine that they would be more unreasonable at compromising than Hearst was.

Well, for starters you have conflicting interests in the very front of that sentence- for the longest time Tolliver thought his best play was to remain in the shelter of Hearst's shadow to out-weigh Al. Only at the very end did Cy conceive of killing Hearst, and even THEN Cy knew he was incapable of that act- Cy knew he was not dynamic or brave enough to kill Hearst- as he says in his final scene - after he has killed Leon -as he is aiming is puny Derringer at Hearst that if he acts quick enough, he can get to the pearly gates quick enough to hear Leon's confessions to St. Peter (or something to that effect). Cy knows that killing Heart would mean his death and Cy Tolliver is a mean, evil bully and thus ultimately a coward.

Al was worse.

Al and Bullock are of equal minds on the subject- killing Hearst would mean, ultimately, the destruction of Deadwood and the end of their lives. Both Al and Seth CRAVED freedom- and not just the freedom to act certain ways and to do certain things but the freedom that comes from the lack of authority of ANY kind. Al and Seth only set up a government so Yankton won't. Yes, Al and Seth COULD have killed Hearst- they had the MEANS to do it, but the price would have been far more than the two men could bare. Deadwood would have been invaded, first by Pinkertons, then by Hearst men and finally by the Federal Government. The town would have been destroyed both figuratively and possibly literally. Also, both Al and Seth could have been killed by Hearst's army and that's no long-term strategy.

So, Al and Seth found a price they would pay. It was not Trixie, but it was Jen and that was that. EVEN THEN Al was willing to die if Hearst was not satisfied- Al says "The deception failing, I'll make a pass at him with my blade." And then :"In the aftermath, play the lie as mine, knowing I speak of you in heaven." Which plays well against the way Cy thinks.

To me, the entire show was about Freedom and the desire to remain removed from the will and power of others. The town is better off without Hearst, but with HEarst dead it ensures Deadwood's death. Al and Seth have to deal with the enemy more subtly.

And it wasn't something pretty.

Anyway... my favorite quotes:

Seth: You don't want to be talkin' that way!

Al:Oh, don't tell me how to talk in my own fuckin' place! Now, here's my counter offer to your counter offer - go *fuck* yourself!

Tom Nuttal: My bicycle masters boardwalk and quagmire with aplomb. Those that doubt me... suck cock by choice.

Wild Bill: Sure you wanna quit playing, Jack? The game's always between you and getting called a cunt...That dropped eye of yours looks like the hood on a cunt to me, Jack. When you talk, your mouth looks like a cunt moving.

Al: Announcing your plans is a good way to hear God laugh.

The Reverend: Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted, to understand, than to be understood, to love, than to be loved... and the rest I forget.

Al: Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

(Any conversation between Al and Wu).

Al: Loopy fucking cunt...

Deadwood was my favorite show of all time and it has only been rivaled by M*A*S*H, The Wire and Madmen in my opinion (The Wire is a better show I just liked Deadwood more). I don't think there has ever been a "tighter" written show. Yes, as the show grew certain idiosyncrasies were harder and harder to ignore (the Brian Cox opera company, Alma's heroine addiction and then relapse) and the show was cancelled so early that it never had a "Jump the Shark" moment. However, only a show as honest, as well acted, and as well crafted as Deadwood could have achieved that second-to-last episode, which boggles my mind in how brilliant it was. Try to remember that in the SECOND EPISODE of Deadwood, Al openly tries to murder Sofia and wants Alma Garrett dead. In the meantime, the major "muscle" in the town - Charlie Utter, Dan Dougherty, and Adams- have all HATED each other at various times. And yet when Ellsworth is killed, Alma takes Sophia to the Gem Saloon and Charlie, Dan and Adams are all sitting around - in a tension so heavy you could cut it with a knife -drinking and joking.

No other show on TV could ever make me believe that. Only Deadwood could

Edited by Rockroi

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Great post Rock.

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