Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't know, I don't describe it as 'ungrateful' to not enjoy your own sister tormenting you with cruel nicknames and allowing others to do it because you only look like Dad and Aunt Lyanna, not the ever perfect Ladies Tully, must be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor of House Hodor Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Victarion and Euron. Darkstar too! Why do you like Darkstar? (If I may be so bold to ask). As was pointed out on these forums a couple weeks back, we don't really know anything about him, except: 1 - He tries to kill little girls 2 - He can't even kill little girls Honestly, I like him too, but I like to hear other people's reasons on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Not sure about how "universally desliked" is Ilyn Payne, but I started to like him when Jaime describes his office, and continue to like him through AFFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't know, I don't describe it as 'ungrateful' to not enjoy your own sister tormenting you with cruel nicknames and allowing others to do it because you only look like Dad and Aunt Lyanna, not the ever perfect Ladies Tully, must be me. That is not what I mean with "ungrateful" however. I was thinking of the following two scenes(I don't have exact quotes but here goes as far as I remember it): First is when she sees the dead members of her father's household guard, she recognizes one of the corpses and remembers how he assured her that every northman is worth then men of the South. She thinks "you're a stupid liar there is only one Lannister guard dead" or something close to that. The other scene is when she sees Yoren's corpse and again thinks something close to "you promised to get me to Winterfell, half of her wanted to kick him the other half wanted to cry(not for Yoren that is) and run away" . Now seriously those men died for her safety and well being and those are her thoughts? If that's not ungrateful I don't know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Anger: the second stage of grief. Children react to people dying with anger, it's a perfectly normal and understandable response-she isn't being ungrateful, she's coping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That is not what I mean with "ungrateful" however. I was thinking of the following two scenes(I don't have exact quotes but here goes as far as I remember it): First is when she sees the dead members of her father's household guard, she recognizes one of the corpses and remembers how he assured her that every northman is worth then men of the South. She thinks "you're a stupid liar there is only one Lannister guard dead" or something close to that. The other scene is when she sees Yoren's corpse and again thinks something close to "you promised to get me to Winterfell, half of her wanted to kick him the other half wanted to cry(not for Yoren that is) and run away" . Now seriously those men died for her safety and well being and those are her thoughts? If that's not ungrateful I don't know what it is. I do understand what you are saying, and as much as I love Arya, there are times I was disappointed in her reactions. Most of the time, though, I think those outbursts are about her being mad with herself for having trust and faith in the things people said and the promises they made. Regardless of what she said about the Northmen and their error about the prowess of them vs the Lannisters, I think it's fair to say that Arya cared about all her father's men, and that outburst didn't change it. As far as Yoren, the bigger part of her insisted on him having a grave, and she helped to dig it herself. Arya is just prone to outbursts, LOL They usually, deep down, mean that she's mad at herself for having beleived in something, especially as her story becomes more and more bleak. At first, I found Sansa to be naive, shallow, but all in all, she was just being what she was raised to be. I do like her more and more, admire her quiet courage, and her ability to not just cave in and totally give up inside with all that has happened to her, is still happening to her. I do get the tendancy with these sisters to 'take a side.' But, while Arya was my first favorite character all around, I don't need to belittle Sansa to explain my choice in Arya as a favorite. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, just that it happens alot, and not just with these two characters. It's one point of the happenings around here that I don't understand. I like lots of characters, lots of members of different families, and don't use my like for one character to tear down another. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 And where are you from if I may ask? Personally I was also very surprised by the love for Arya, I find her obnoxious. Then again I found the popular opinions for so many characters surprising that I simply got used to being in the minority. Tomboyish little girls who always do wht they want are quite popular in fiction, most casual readers (and now TV viewers) think she's adorable ETA: I'm not saying all Arya fans think like that, she is a fascinating character, and her storyline is great, but that is something I noticed in other sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I do understand what you are saying, and as much as I love Arya, there are times I was disappointed in her reactions. Most of the time, though, I think those outbursts are about her being mad with herself for having trust and faith in the things people said and the promises they made. Regardless of what she said about the Northmen and their error about the prowess of them vs the Lannisters, I think it's fair to say that Arya cared about all her father's men, and that outburst didn't change it. As far as Yoren, the bigger part of her insisted on him having a grave, and she helped to dig it herself. Arya is just prone to outbursts, LOL They usually, deep down, mean that she's mad at herself for having beleived in something, especially as her story becomes more and more bleak. At first, I found Sansa to be naive, shallow, but all in all, she was just being what she was raised to be. I do like her more and more, admire her quiet courage, and her ability to not just cave in and totally give up inside with all that has happened to her, is still happening to her. I do get the tendancy with these sisters to 'take a side.' But, while Arya was my first favorite character all around, I don't need to belittle Sansa to explain my choice in Arya as a favorite. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, just that it happens alot, and not just with these two characters. It's one point of the happenings around here that I don't understand. I like lots of characters, lots of members of different families, and don't use my like for one character to tear down another. That's all I'm saying. I understand your point as well and I'm not saying Arya is a particularly bad(let alone evil) girl. Her personality is just quite different that mine(the qualities I listed for her are the ones I find particularly annoying) and that's the way I am - the more different than me someone is, the less I like him/her. And I'm not comparing her with Sansa I never said anything about her other that I like her better. I generally agree with the "take a side" tendency but I don't think it's necessary in this particular case, the two sisters are hardly enemies. P.S. :cheers: Cheers for the interesting conversation, it's always interesting to see things through another person's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I understand your point as well and I'm not saying Arya is a particularly bad(let alone evil) girl. Her personality is just quite different that mine(the qualities I listed for her are the ones I find particularly annoying) and that's the way I am - the more different than me someone is, the less I like him/her. And I'm not comparing her with Sansa I never said anything about her other that I like her better. I generally agree with the "take a side" tendency but I don't think it's necessary in this particular case, the two sisters are hardly enemies. P.S. :cheers: Cheers for the interesting conversation, it's always interesting to see things through another person's eyes. I enjoyed it, too. And, sorry, my dislike of the way some, not you, do the take one side thing probably contributed to the way I started this exchange, sorry about that. :cheers: I do think the fact that Arya insisted upon a grave for Yoren says alot more about her true feelings than her initial thoughts and tendancy to outbursts. She does call herself stupid, stupid, stupid......as much as she does others. I do like Sansa more and more, and feel like we've been left hanging from the end of AFFC, I can't believe we didn't even get a glimpse of her ADWD. I hear of the supposed 'controversial' chapter for her, I'm guessing that's why we didn't see her in the last book. I really, really want her to get out from under Littlefinger, soon, that guy gives me the creeps. I still, surprisingly, nurse the little idea of how perhaps that marriage between Sansa and Willas Tyrell might have been good for Sansa. I don't know why.........I just do have that idea of her being happy, and loved for herself and not her name and her claims by a good, decent man, and Willas did sound like he was a good guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionsFlagon Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 When Theon said, "My name is Reek, it rhymes with freak." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood! Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I enjoyed it, too. And, sorry, my dislike of the way some, not you, do the take one side thing probably contributed to the way I started this exchange, sorry about that. :cheers: I do think the fact that Arya insisted upon a grave for Yoren says alot more about her true feelings than her initial thoughts and tendancy to outbursts. She does call herself stupid, stupid, stupid......as much as she does others. I do like Sansa more and more, and feel like we've been left hanging from the end of AFFC, I can't believe we didn't even get a glimpse of her ADWD. I hear of the supposed 'controversial' chapter for her, I'm guessing that's why we didn't see her in the last book. I really, really want her to get out from under Littlefinger, soon, that guy gives me the creeps. I still, surprisingly, nurse the little idea of how perhaps that marriage between Sansa and Willas Tyrell might have been good for Sansa. I don't know why.........I just do have that idea of her being happy, and loved for herself and not her name and her claims by a good, decent man, and Willas did sound like he was a good guy. I too would like for Sansa to actually find her "prince" like she always wanted and know that while the world is certainly not a fairytale, it's also not as horrible as a certain burned man wanted her to believe. If said prince is Aegon all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 When Baelish told Ned that he'd warned him not to trust him before he betrayed him, I was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May1992 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Not sure about how "universally desliked" is Ilyn Payne, but I started to like him when Jaime describes his office, and continue to like him through AFFC This Also I've always liked Sansa, Jamie, Littlefinger and Roose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I too would like for Sansa to actually find her "prince" like she always wanted and know that while the world is certainly not a fairytale, it's also not as horrible as a certain burned man wanted her to believe. If said prince is Aegon all the better. I think one reason I don't think of Aegon as her Prince is because, real or fake, I don't expect him to last long. I don't know, maybe it's because I like both books and puppies that I still hold out on Willas for her, that could be the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I like Daario and Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 When I saw this scene of the show, I started liking Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I always liked Roose since AGOT when his quiet demeanor was even more prominently. Then in Harrenhal when he quietly drinks while watching Lorch being dragged to the bear cage. Then when he says "I'm not a man to be undone, sir", it's hard not to be intrigued by this strange guy. Then when he says that one king can be terrible, but four... hinting that he will be a huge player later on. But the time when I started to think he was not only awesome but absolutely hilarious was after this line: How many of our grudging friends do you imagine we’d retain if the truth were known? Only Lady Barbrey, whom you would turn into a pair of boots … inferior boots. Human skin is not as tough as cowhide and will not wear as well. I loved the High Septon when he outsmarted Cersei and imprisoned her. The WoS is bad but it will take more than that to make me dislike the guy who took down Cersei's reign of terror. I like Areo fine too. I started liking him when he tries to politely dissuade Obara of her intentions even though he could easily defeat her. During a reread I started liking Walder Frey when he mocks Tywin: Lord Tywin the proud and splendid, Warden of the West, Hand of the King, oh, what a great man that one is, him and his gold this and gold that and lions here and lions there. I’ll wager you, he cats too many beans, he breaks wind just like me, but you’ll never hear him admit it, oh, no. What’s he got to be so puffed up about anyway? Only two sons, and one of them’s a twisted little monster. Dareon when he complains how ridiculously unfair his sentence was considering the Rowan girl helped him into her room. This makes his death more tragic. Chett during his prologue POV after we learn what a shitty life he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Not sure about how "universally desliked" is Ilyn Payne, but I started to like him when Jaime describes his office, and continue to like him through AFFC Yes, I love him mocking Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The Payne is awesome. He strikes as a guys who "does it for the lulz" to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Liked the High Septon as well because he seems to be the only one really caring for the smallfolk so far, with maybe the exception of the BwB, but they seem more concerned with exacting revenge than helping the smallfolk at the moment. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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