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Werthead

GOODKIND V

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As much fun as it's been to make light of Goodkind and his ideals, part of me feels like it's giving a bit too much credence to the notion that Goodkind actually matters. A joke or two here and there is good, but when it becomes the focus of a lot of board activity, it's almost like saying that Goodkind has an important role to play in fantasy. I think he's just little more than a mass-market pulp writer that appeals to a pulp-reading (read Dan Brown, Tom Clancy, John Grisham, and their ilk) fantasy audience or to a small core of Objectivists. I don't care if he's sold 1 book, 11 million, or 50 million - the quality of the work apparently is that of a Gor novel and seems to appeal strongly to a similar demographic. I just want to fast-forward 50 years and get this out of the system. Then again, in 50 years, I'd be almost 82, so maybe I'll just wait this one out... :P

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I wouldn't worry about it. Goodkind and his fans don't need a couple thousand posts on this board to fuel their delusions of grandeur. Those have existed since way before the first "Goodkind" thread.

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meh, turning to see just how balanced the moderation and fanbase truly is. Even money says it ends up ugly.

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the international coalition of socialists is on the run! so sayeth JoeDu.

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Good morning and welcome to the Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day. In this episode, a member of the Imperial Order (some little punk) has snuck into the good guys' camp, stabbed a little girl, and killed Warren the Wizard (who we were all getting tired of anyway) before getting captured. Typically, everybody talks too much.

"So," the lad said, trying to sound tough, "I guess that in my servcice to the Order I knifed someone important. That makes me a hero of the Order." <plays Bonnie Tyler in the background>

"Make him kneel before the Mother Confessor," General Meiffert said with quiet command.

The two soldiers kicked the back of the young man's knees to take him down. He snickered as he knelt before her.

"So, you're the big important whore I've heard so much about. Too bad you weren't around - I'd have loved to have cut you. I guess I showed some people I'm pretty good with a knife." <is he applying for a job?>

"So in my absence," Kahlan said, "you cut a child, instead."

"Just for practice. I'd have cut a lot more people if these big dumb oxen wouldn't have lucked into jumping me. But I still did my duty to the Order and the Creator." <and I would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for these meddling kids>

It was the bravado of someone who knew he was about to pay the ultimate price for his actions. He was trying to convince himself that he had fulfilled a valuable service. He wanted to die a hero, and then go straight to the Creator for his reward in the afterlife. <so far, Terry has made no mention of how many virgins they get upon arrival>

Verna [Warrens wife]emerged from the tent. There was no hurry in her movements. Her face was ashen and drawn. Kahlan took hold of her arm, ready to help if Verna should need it.

Verna stopped when she saw the young man on his knees.

"This is him?" she asked.

Kahlan put her other hand tenderly to Verna's back, silently offering support.

"This is him," Kahlan confirmed.

"That's right." The lad sneered up at Verna. "I'm the one who knifed the enemy wizard. I'm a hero. The Order will bring relief and justice to the people, and I helped do it. Your kind is always trying to keep us down."

"Keep you down," Verna repeated in a dead tone.

"Those who are born with all the luck and advantages - they never want to share. I waited, but no one ever gave me a chance in life until the Order did. I'm a hero of downtrodden people everywhere. I've struck a blow against the oppressors of mankind. I've helped bring justice to those who are never given a chance. I killed an evil man. I'm a hero!"

<blah blah blah, I'm a hero, yadda yadda yadda, yay for me>

The man on his knees grinned at Verna. "The Creator will give me my reward in the next life. I'm not afraid to die. I've earned eternity in his everlasting Light."

Verna passed her gaze among the eyes of all those gathered.

"I don't care what you do to him," she said, "but I want to hear his screams the entire night. I want this camp to hear his screams the entire night. I want the Order's scouts to hear his screams. That will be my tribute to Warren." <what ever happened to a nice eulogy? or a monument?>

The young man licked his lips, realizing things weren't going as he had expected.

"That isn't fair!" the yong assassin shouted in protest.

Panic began to tremble through his body. He had been prepared for a martyr's death, a quick end. This was something unforeseen. "He died quick. I shoud have the same condsideration! This isn't fair!"

"Fair? What isn't fair," Verna said with terrible calmness, , "is that your mohter ever opened her legs for your father. We shall now belatedly correct her mistake. What isn't fair is that a good and kind man died at the hands of a sniveling little coward so lacking in sense that he is incapable of recognizing the lies he now spews out at us. <too bad he doesn't get to see the statue>

"You wish to trade your life for the one you have taken? You wish to die in a cause you foolishly believe to be noble? You shall have your wish, young man. But before you die, you shall fully understand what it is you have surrendered, how priecious is your life, and how utterly wasted. <if Richard was giving the speech, it would go on for two hours> You shall come to regret your mother's act of creation as much as do we."

<blah blah blah, Cara is gonna take care of it, yadda yadda>

Verna nodded. "I will be indebted to you, Cara." She started to leave, but paused. "Don't let him die before morning, when I will come to witness it. I wish to look into his eyes and see if this young man has come to understand the nature of reality, and its lack of fairness, before he forfeits his life for nothing of worth and for his part in a great evil." <blah blah>

"Mother Confessor!" The young man struggled fratically, but the soldiers had him in a firm grip. "If you're so good as you claim, then show me mercy!"

Drool ran from the cornier of the boy's mouth and hung swinging in rhythm with his panting. <thank you for that image>

"But I have," Kahlan said. "I am allowing you to suffer the sentence Verna has named, and not the one I would impose." <I guess she would have made him eat his own testicles>

~Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

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Kahlan, Richard and their followers have such high morals and a righteous sense of justice. It is hard to believe their enemies would be able to believe the propoganda fed to them isn't it.

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Torturing people is always the best way of proving your righteousness.

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I guess spending the evening torturing an idiot to death, completely out of spite, is a pretty noble ideal.

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It just shows that Richard's thing is so inspiring he makes everyone bloodthirsty torturers in his service.

Nothing like making fools scream in pain all night to bring people to your side.

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I guess its a good thing the Mord Sith didn't work for Richard when he encountered princess Violet, or she would have been in for quite an evening.

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Certain authors build a strawman to show how great, witty and intelligent their heroes are just by opposing it.

Terry Goodkind is above these authors; he builds an Order of strawmen.

What is disturbing is how much Richard and his brave followers look like a badly build bunch of strawmen themselves. No Altruist could have done better than Terry to show the cruelty of the self styled noble truth seekers.

The Sword of Truth is in fact a masterpiece of Altruists propaganda.

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You know, I've been trying to figure out what is so disturbing about Goodkind's writing and portrayal of some of these scenes. It's not the violence and/or torture aspect, but rather the way he seems to revel in it, and hold the perpetrators of such acts as conquering heroes.

To me, the justification for the torture is just as evil and misguided as the filth the young assassin is espousing. Which once again wouldn't really be a problem if it was just the characters behaving in that way, rather then the author championing the cause.

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I think it is even more simple than that Zadok. It seems to me that many of the situations are created specifically to show how TG would like to react in a world were his actions did not have to be justified and rationalised by others. It is childish in the extreme and shows a deep seeted anger at the way the world is and a simplistic and immature means of dealing with it.

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"See? This is why the Objectivist cause is so great! Every week we have Torture Wednesdays, then we all get together and have Orgy Friday! Afterwards, even though the women members submitted themselves to our will, we'll whip them through the streets for being shameless whores!"

"Who are you calling? I'M NOT A NUT!"

-Prophesied last words of Terry Goodkind.

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Got to wonder what a psychoanalyst would say about Goodkind after reading some of his books.

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I think it is even more simple than that Zadok. It seems to me that many of the situations are created specifically to show how TG would like to react in a world were his actions did not have to be justified and rationalised by others. It is childish in the extreme and shows a deep seeted anger at the way the world is and a simplistic and immature means of dealing with it.

I would agree with this. I try not to read too much into the personality and such of the author from their books, however in a case like this where the story seems to be hijacked for the express purpose of torturing an evildoer it's pretty hard to miss. I think it's extremely likely that some of these scenes represent something Goodkind wishes he was free to do in real life. The slaughter of the people "armed only with their hatred of moral clarity" would seem to be another good example.

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It is interesting that when the Jagang (the bad guy) has someone tortured, it is for strategic purposes. To get information vital to their cause, and so on.

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It is interesting that when the Jagang (the bad guy) has someone tortured, it is for strategic purposes. To get information vital to their cause, and so on.

Whereas when Richard and Co. torture someone, it's because they hate moral clarity.

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Whereas when Richard and Co. torture someone, it's because they hate moral clarity.

Thats right. True moral clarity and human nobility are only apparent when you put someone through a world of unspeakable agony simply because they pissed you off. Richard's statue should have shown a woman forcing a man to eat his own balls.

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Thats right. True moral clarity and human nobility are only apparent when you put someone through a world of unspeakable agony simply because they pissed you off. Richard's statue should have shown a woman forcing a man to eat his own balls.

Better yet... a woman forcing a man to force his best friend to eat his own balls.

Although I don't know how this ultimate expression of honor could be expressed on a statue, I'm sure everyone who sees it (or sees Richard's thing, which conveys the same message) will suddenly see how evil and morally filthy they are. They will then become noble slayers of the wicked (AKA haters of moral clarity). As The Yeard decrees, such great work is done.

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