Lyanna...WTFoshizzles?

[Lonin]

They could have taken ravens with them to ToJ, surely. But when you travel with ravens, you draw attention to yourself. Making the likelyhood that Rhaegar took ravens with him to ToJ smaller and smaller.

ToJ had been abandoned before Rhaegar and co arrived, so no ravens would be trained to fly from elsewhere in Westeros to ToJ. For getting info to ToJ, a messenger was necessary.

Kingsgrave has ravens - which is a several hours away. ToJ is so close to Kingsgrave, both of which are in The Princesses Pass to guard Dorne. That someone could have taken over ToJ without Kingsgrave being aware, does not seem that probable.

Note: by communication center I was saying that the ravens could be flying to/from Kingsguard,, I didn't say they were flying to/from ToJ. tho a nice bolded argument against something I did not say.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Kingsgrave has ravens - which is a several hours away. ToJ is so close to Kingsgrave, both of which are in The Princesses Pass to guard Dorne. That someone could have taken over ToJ without Kingsgrave being aware, does not seem that probable.

Note: by communication center I was saying that the ravens could be flying to/from Kingsguard,, I didn't say they were flying to/from ToJ. tho a nice bolded argument against something I did not say.

The KG are at ToJ though.. and Kingsgrave being only "hours away".. most likely days.

But why use Kingsgrave? There's only one chance to get it right, and if you go ask a house which is sworn to the House of the wife you've just left for another woman, chances are rather big that your secret is all over Dorne in a fortnight.

House Manwoody of Kingsgrave is sworn to House Martell. Can't go asking them for help, since they were never part of the inner circle, and thus are most likely to alert the Martells, who will expose you to the King.

Same goes for the other Dornish houses that are closeby.

House Dayne had a prominent member in Rhaegars party, though, and would thus be less likely to alert the Martells.

On map, ToJ and Kingsgrave might seem closeby. In reality, there's quite some distance to cover.

[Lonin]

On map, ToJ and Kingsgrave might seem closeby. In reality, there's quite some distance to cover.

Ahh, reality... I take it that you have made the trip between ToJ and Kingsgrave?... But, you have not have you... my estimate of hours is as good as yours of days.

This exchange started when I commented that the lac of communication between R/L and the world was strange and that Kingsgrave was close enough to serve as a raven communication center. You then distorted my comments into something about training ravens to fly to/from ToJ.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

So let´s suppose the ToJ was somewhere totally isolated and when word got to them finally things had already gone horrible wrong. Why does Rhaegar ride off to fight at the Trident? Why do Ned and Robert have to die for things to change? From Jaimie's POV he was going to come back and 'make changes' but why couldn´t he go ahead and make those changes right then? Why not remove the psycho that unrationally called for Ned and Robert's heads, setting off this whole thing? You can hate Robert all you want, but at that time he is just a (what like 17?) young teen, chilling in the Vale and learning to be a Lord. (I totally see some (possible intentional) bad advice from Varys there, by the way). Robert hasn´t done anything at this point except get his woman stolen, it was Ned's family that rightfully got upset about it. So Rhaegar thinks its OK to go out and end two guys that are just fighting for their lives at this point because his crazy daddy, (who apparently Rhaegar himself thinks, 'warrants change') wants to eat their souls. Was he going to win the battle and then pardon them? That´s how he and Robert wind up dueling? And you can argue what you want about the reality of an heir being able to show mercy or not to someone who has officially rebelled against the realm, but any way you examine his actions, Rhaegar still winds up looking like a dick.

[corbon]

So let´s suppose the ToJ was somewhere totally isolated and when word got to them finally things had already gone horrible wrong. Why does Rhaegar ride off to fight at the Trident?

Because there's a rebellion threatening the Kingdom, his House and his family and his King has commanded him to take command of the Loyalist forces.

Why do Ned and Robert have to die for things to change?

They don't, necessarily. Aerys was a paranoid dick over Brandon's treason.

From Jaimie's POV he was going to come back and 'make changes' but why couldn´t he go ahead and make those changes right then?

How?

One thing you don't do in the middle of a civil war is shatter your command structure and splinter your faction into two new factions fighting each other and the rebels.

Instead, you win the war first, which strengthens your position immeasurably, and then deal with your own schism as the victorious commander - possibly having added many of your former enemies to your own supporters, as well as brought many supporters who would formerly have supported the king vs the Crown Prince into your potential camp.

Why not remove the psycho that unrationally called for Ned and Robert's heads, setting off this whole thing?

See above. Because its a really stupid move as well as having much lower chance of success than if it is delayed until after the rebellion is defeated.

Basically its all too late to fix it with words now. The rebels can't back down, can't risk Rhaegar's word he'll sort it all out despite the King's demands and Rhaegar can't stage an internal power struggle with the rebels a serious external threat.

You can hate Robert all you want, but at that time he is just a (what like 17?) young teen, chilling in the Vale and learning to be a Lord. (I totally see some (possible intentional) bad advice from Varys there, by the way). Robert hasn´t done anything at this point except get his woman stolen, it was Ned's family that rightfully got upset about it.

Robert was 20ish, had been a Lord in his own right for years already, and was drinking and wenching and fighting, if you call that chilling. :)

But yes, Robert was entirely innocent. As was Ned.

So Rhaegar thinks its OK to go out and end two guys that are just fighting for their lives at this point because his crazy daddy, (who apparently Rhaegar himself thinks, 'warrants change') wants to eat their souls. Was he going to win the battle and then pardon them? That´s how he and Robert wind up dueling?

We have no indication Rhaegar wanted or needed to kill Robert or Ned personally. Perhaps he was going to win the battle then give them a pardon. Or perhaps he was going to smash them and didn't care about them at all. Perhaps he wanted to spare Lyanna's brother, but kill Robert, his erstwhile rival. We have no idea. Any or all of the above are possible, as other several other scenarios.

Basically at this stage Rhaegar is also fighting for his life, and those of his children etc.

And you can argue what you want about the reality of an heir being able to show mercy or not to someone who has officially rebelled against the realm, but any way you examine his actions, Rhaegar still winds up looking like a dick.

Not if thats not the organ you do your thinking with.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Ahh, reality... I take it that you have made the trip between ToJ and Kingsgrave?... But, you have not have you... my estimate of hours is as good as yours of days.

This exchange started when I commented that the lac of communication between R/L and the world was strange and that Kingsgrave was close enough to serve as a raven communication center. You then distorted my comments into something about training ravens to fly to/from ToJ.

No, I did not make a trip to Kingsgrave and ToJ. I did take a look at the most canon map available, from the Lands of Ice and Fire, and compared the length of the Wall (300 miles) with the distance between ToJ and Kingsgrave.. Which would be about 60 miles, through an area of mountains. Difficult to cross that within a few hours, wouldn't you say?

2, perhaps 3 days, depending on the area.

As to the bolded part, rather odd that you'd reply that on a post of mine that did not speak about ravens trained to fly to ToJ.. I mentioned that once, in an earlier post, to cover all the possibilities. I did not mention it in the post you were replying to.

Perhaps you can reply to that post, I'll quote it for convenience:

The KG are at ToJ though.. and Kingsgrave being only "hours away".. most likely days.

But why use Kingsgrave? There's only one chance to get it right, and if you go ask a house which is sworn to the House of the wife you've just left for another woman, chances are rather big that your secret is all over Dorne in a fortnight.

House Manwoody of Kingsgrave is sworn to House Martell. Can't go asking them for help, since they were never part of the inner circle, and thus are most likely to alert the Martells, who will expose you to the King.

Same goes for the other Dornish houses that are closeby.

House Dayne had a prominent member in Rhaegars party, though, and would thus be less likely to alert the Martells.

On map, ToJ and Kingsgrave might seem closeby. In reality, there's quite some distance to cover.

[Ygrain]

So let´s suppose the ToJ was somewhere totally isolated and when word got to them finally things had already gone horrible wrong. Why does Rhaegar ride off to fight at the Trident? Why do Ned and Robert have to die for things to change? From Jaimie's POV he was going to come back and 'make changes' but why couldn´t he go ahead and make those changes right then? Why not remove the psycho that unrationally called for Ned and Robert's heads, setting off this whole thing? You can hate Robert all you want, but at that time he is just a (what like 17?) young teen, chilling in the Vale and learning to be a Lord. (I totally see some (possible intentional) bad advice from Varys there, by the way). Robert hasn´t done anything at this point except get his woman stolen, it was Ned's family that rightfully got upset about it. So Rhaegar thinks its OK to go out and end two guys that are just fighting for their lives at this point because his crazy daddy, (who apparently Rhaegar himself thinks, 'warrants change') wants to eat their souls. Was he going to win the battle and then pardon them? That´s how he and Robert wind up dueling? And you can argue what you want about the reality of an heir being able to show mercy or not to someone who has officially rebelled against the realm, but any way you examine his actions, Rhaegar still winds up looking like a dick.

Rhaegar joins the fighting when the fate of his dynasty is at stake. If the rebels win, he can hardly expect lenience, while if he wins, he can show it himself. Furthermore, when he wins and the rebels bend knee, he will have the support of both the loyalists and the rebels to deal with Aerys. If he tried to do so before, he would only risk a split up in the loyalist forces while the rebels would remain unified against him.

[Talking Hodor]

Perhaps she didn't know what was going on while she was in hiding with Rhaegar. She could have still been fleeing south while Aerys was executing Rickard and Brandon.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

Because there's a rebellion threatening the Kingdom, his House and his family and his King has commanded him to take command of the Loyalist forces.

They don't, necessarily. Aerys was a paranoid dick over Brandon's treason.

How?

One thing you don't do in the middle of a civil war is shatter your command structure and splinter your faction into two new factions fighting each other and the rebels.

Instead, you win the war first, which strengthens your position immeasurably, and then deal with your own schism as the victorious commander - possibly having added many of your former enemies to your own supporters, as well as brought many supporters who would formerly have supported the king vs the Crown Prince into your potential camp.

See above. Because its a really stupid move as well as having much lower chance of success than if it is delayed until after the rebellion is defeated.

Basically its all too late to fix it with words now. The rebels can't back down, can't risk Rhaegar's word he'll sort it all out despite the King's demands and Rhaegar can't stage an internal power struggle with the rebels a serious external threat.

Robert was 20ish, had been a Lord in his own right for years already, and was drinking and wenching and fighting, if you call that chilling. :)

But yes, Robert was entirely innocent. As was Ned.

We have no indication Rhaegar wanted or needed to kill Robert or Ned personally. Perhaps he was going to win the battle then give them a pardon. Or perhaps he was going to smash them and didn't care about them at all. Perhaps he wanted to spare Lyanna's brother, but kill Robert, his erstwhile rival. We have no idea. Any or all of the above are possible, as other several other scenarios.

Basically at this stage Rhaegar is also fighting for his life, and those of his children etc.

Not if thats not the organ you do your thinking with.

Rhaegar joins the fighting when the fate of his dynasty is at stake. If the rebels win, he can hardly expect lenience, while if he wins, he can show it himself. Furthermore, when he wins and the rebels bend knee, he will have the support of both the loyalists and the rebels to deal with Aerys. If he tried to do so before, he would only risk a split up in the loyalist forces while the rebels would remain unified against him.

Like I said, even in the best case scenario, he is a dick... Let me steal this guys girl, knock her up, sending my kingdom into a tailspin thanks to my crazy daddy who I think it is fine to leave alone for months at a time and then come back to fight a major battle where thousands of innocent lives will be lost even if i do save the two innocently persecuted young lords to save my (daddy) dynasty...

male sexual organ, 100%.

[Ygrain]

Like I said, even in the best case scenario, he is a dick... Let me steal this guys girl, knock her up, sending my kingdom into a tailspin thanks to my crazy daddy who I think it is fine to leave alone for months at a time and then come back to fight a major battle where thousands of innocent lives will be lost even if i do save the two innocently persecuted young lords to save my (daddy) dynasty...

male sexual organ, 100%.

Apparently, at the time when he made away with Lyanna, his crystal ball was malfunctioning, so he had no idea what it would lead to - and once it did, all that was left was a choice between various evils.

[joluoto2]

We're supposed to think Rhaegar had isolated himself in some remote Place with Lyanna, so she probably knew nothing of what was going on in the Realm. And I doubt Rhaegar told her anytthing when he found out.

And Rhaegar apparently had no understanding of politics, since he had no clue kidnapping a girl from one of the most powerful houses would be a bad thing. Or then he knew it would probably cause a shit storm, but just didn't care.

[George48]

Well let's try to analyse what happened:

1. Robert Baratheon is engaged to Lyanna Stark. She has two bothers: Ned who is being raised with Robert in the Vale and Brandon who's engaged to Cat Tully... Everyone is just chilling out... well as much as you can under the Mad King. Lyanna is a strong willed girl who knows how to ride and like Brandon has "Wolf's Blood"
   
2. You got his King... who's mad... that's why they call him The Mad King. Rhaegar wants to quietly remove him. Ok. He is also MARRIED with a Dornish princess and has fathered several CHILDREN. Rhaegar is a also handsome (no homo), plays a harp and a bit cultured and very smart.
   
3. A tourney is organised in Harrenhall, it's the biggest that there ever was. At the end of it Rhaegar crown Lyanna and not his wife Elia as the "Queen of Love and Beauty"...o...k... And one year later the two of them "dissapear" (let's not jump to conclusions just yet).
   

Ok... until now some of us would just wonder: "Is Rhaegar taking the piss?". I mean, think about it: our smart prince who wanted to remove his father from the throne quietly just insulted three powerful noble houses: Martel, Baratheon and Stark. Not to mention that the first two were the natural allies of the Crown and could have helped him. And we are still giving him the presumpcion of innocence.

Ok, the two of them go to the Tower of Joy and they are no heard from for a long time... not even one message.

I mean let's examine the facts:

1. Brandon travels from Winterfel to King's Landing in order to duel Rhaegar... nothing
   
2. A raven is sent to from King's Landing to the Vale after the "Trial by combat"... nothing
   
3. Robert returns to Strom's End and Eddard to Winterfel... and do remember that almost the whole of Westeros knew about Brandon's death by then
   
4. The Rebellion begins as the rebels raise the banners (and this takes a lot of time)... still nothing
   
5. The battles of Gulltown, Ashforn, Summerhall... take place... still not a word about Lyanna but Rhaegar emerges and takes command of the Royal Army.
   
6. He leads the said army against the Rebels who had every reason to rebell thank to him and his father...
   

Ok, now tell me, is there anything that points to the fact that Lyanna was NOT kidnapped?

She did not speak to anyone in the outside world until her guards died. Neither she or Rhaegar evert tried to say something like: "Hey, we are just in love. This was not a kidnapping"

or "I'm sorry for Brandon but we just wanted to be together". Rhaegar could have just as easily joined the Rebellion or at least try to apologise to Ned for his father and brother (Robert would be unlikely to receive an apology). It takes only a few days for a raven to arrive to the nearest castle and if they didn't have ravens they could have sent a messager.

And if we start arguing about Robert vs Rhaegar keep in mind this: Rhaegar was married and with children. If Lyanna did not like the fact that Robert liked whoring even though he was engaged... why the fuck did she ran away with a married man?

Also... supposing that anyone would have known that she was not kidnapped or had received a raven... why didn't they speak? At Harrenhall everyone knew what could happen when Rhaegar approached Lyanna

[Khal BlackfyreO]

Apparently, at the time when he made away with Lyanna, his crystal ball was malfunctioning, so he had no idea what it would lead to - and once it did, all that was left was a choice between various evils.

Well, first of all, there are no such things as crystal balls in Westeros, they are called 'glass candles'. So there.

And secondly, heck yeah, always make sure your glass candle is in working order before eloping with a hottie, that´s like dating 101.

[Ygrain]

Well let's try to analyse what happened:

1. Robert Baratheon is engaged to Lyanna Stark. She has two bothers: Ned who is being raised with Robert in the Vale and Brandon who's engaged to Cat Tully... Everyone is just chilling out... well as much as you can under the Mad King. Lyanna is a strong willed girl who knows how to ride and like Brandon has "Wolf's Blood"

You got his King... who's mad... that's why they call him The Mad King. Rhaegar wants to quietly remove him. Ok. He is also MARRIED with a Dornish princess and has fathered several CHILDREN. Rhaegar is a also handsome (no homo), plays a harp and a bit cultured and very smart.

A tourney is organised in Harrenhall, it's the biggest that there ever was. At the end of it Rhaegar crown Lyanna and not his wife Elia as the "Queen of Love and Beauty"...o...k... And one year later the two of them "dissapear" (let's not jump to conclusions just yet).

Ok... until now some of us would just wonder: "Is Rhaegar taking the piss?". I mean, think about it: our smart prince who wanted to remove his father from the throne quietly just insulted three powerful noble houses: Martel, Baratheon and Stark. Not to mention that the first two were the natural allies of the Crown and could have helped him. And we are still giving him the presumpcion of innocence.

Ok, the two of them go to the Tower of Joy and they are no heard from for a long time... not even one message.

I mean let's examine the facts:

1. Brandon travels from Winterfel to King's Landing in order to duel Rhaegar... nothing

A raven is sent to from King's Landing to the Vale after the "Trial by combat"... nothing

Robert returns to Strom's End and Eddard to Winterfel... and do remember that almost the whole of Westeros knew about Brandon's death by then

The Rebellion begins as the rebels raise the banners (and this takes a lot of time)... still nothing

The battles of Gulltown, Ashforn, Summerhall... take place... still not a word about Lyanna but Rhaegar emerges and takes command of the Royal Army.

He leads the said army against the Rebels who had every reason to rebell thank to him and his father...

Ok, now tell me, is there anything that points to the fact that Lyanna was NOT kidnapped?

She did not speak to anyone in the outside world until her guards died. Neither she or Rhaegar evert tried to say something like: "Hey, we are just in love. This was not a kidnapping"

or "I'm sorry for Brandon but we just wanted to be together". Rhaegar could have just as easily joined the Rebellion or at least try to apologise to Ned for his father and brother (Robert would be unlikely to receive an apology). It takes only a few days for a raven to arrive to the nearest castle and if they didn't have ravens they could have sent a messager.

And if we start arguing about Robert vs Rhaegar keep in mind this: Rhaegar was married and with children. If Lyanna did not like the fact that Robert liked whoring even though he was engaged... why the fuck did she ran away with a married man?

Also... supposing that anyone would have known that she was not kidnapped or had received a raven... why didn't they speak? At Harrenhall everyone knew what could happen when Rhaegar approached Lyanna

If you want to analyse something, you need to stick to the text, not assumptions.

1. Dunno how many bothers Lyanna had but brothers, she had three.

2. It is not stated whether Aerys was called the Mad King even before the Rebellion;, all we have is an account 14+ years later.

1. Brandon doesn't travel from Winterfell. He was in Riverrun and left to meet Rickard somewhere along the way, and we DON'T know if there was any message or not. There is a notable lack of response from Rickard, as well as lack of concern about Lyanna when Brandon yells for Rhaegar to come out and die.

2.-6. At this point, any message from Lyanna is inconsequential. Aerys wants Ned and Robert dead, and they are not going to have their heads lopped off.

Lyanna may have been kidnapped but not without her consent, or else she wouldn't be holding flowers from Rhaegar on her deathbed. Why would she run away with Rhaegar if she disapproved of whoring? Why, whoring means to have casual sex with many women. Rhaegar would have had sex with just one woman - her. And I haven't even touched the whole polygamy issue.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

If you want to analyse something, you need to stick to the text, not assumptions.

1. Dunno how many bothers Lyanna had but brothers, she had three.

2. It is not stated whether Aerys was called the Mad King even before the Rebellion;, all we have is an account 14+ years later.

1. Brandon doesn't travel from Winterfell. He was in Riverrun and left to meet Rickard somewhere along the way, and we DON'T know if there was any message or not. There is a notable lack of response from Rickard, as well as lack of concern about Lyanna when Brandon yells for Rhaegar to come out and die.

2.-6. At this point, any message from Lyanna is inconsequential. Aerys wants Ned and Robert dead, and they are not going to have their heads lopped off.

Lyanna may have been kidnapped but not without her consent, or else she wouldn't be holding flowers from Rhaegar on her deathbed. Why would she run away with Rhaegar if she disapproved of whoring? Why, whoring means to have casual sex with many women. Rhaegar would have had sex with just one woman - her. And I haven't even touched the whole polygamy issue.

And if we start arguing about Robert vs Rhaegar keep in mind this: Rhaegar was married and with children. If Lyanna did not like the fact that Robert liked whoring even though he was engaged... why the fuck did she ran away with a married man?

George does have a point there, Rhaegar was a married man, you can argue all you want about Robert being 'worse' because he was with more women. Rhaegar still left his wife and children to be with another woman. So stating 'Rhaegar would have had sex with just one woman - her.' might have been true from that point on, but that wouldn´t have mattered much to Elia. I don´t think criticizing Lyanna for her choice there is out of order, especially regarding her supposed reasons for doubting Robert.

[Ygrain]

And if we start arguing about Robert vs Rhaegar keep in mind this: Rhaegar was married and with children. If Lyanna did not like the fact that Robert liked whoring even though he was engaged... why the fuck did she ran away with a married man?

George does have a point there, Rhaegar was a married man, you can argue all you want about Robert being 'worse' because he was with more women. Rhaegar still left his wife and children to be with another woman. So stating 'Rhaegar would have had sex with just one woman - her.' might have been true from that point on, but that wouldn´t have mattered much to Elia. I don´t think criticizing Lyanna for her choice there is out of order, especially regarding her supposed reasons for doubting Robert.

If they married, it wasn't cheating, though. Curious that Lyanna made away with the single young man in Westeros whose family tradition and social rank allowed for this solution.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

And if we start arguing about Robert vs Rhaegar keep in mind this: Rhaegar was married and with children. If Lyanna did not like the fact that Robert liked whoring even though he was engaged... why the fuck did she ran away with a married man?

George does have a point there, Rhaegar was a married man, you can argue all you want about Robert being 'worse' because he was with more women. Rhaegar still left his wife and children to be with another woman. So stating 'Rhaegar would have had sex with just one woman - her.' might have been true from that point on, but that wouldn´t have mattered much to Elia. I don´t think criticizing Lyanna for her choice there is out of order, especially regarding her supposed reasons for doubting Robert.

Criticizing Lyanna for making a choice while we have absolutely no idea what was going on, it a bit much, no?

Elia would die if she had to birth another child, which could suggest that Rhaegar, from Aegon's birth on, might have chosen to not sleep with Elia again. It could get her pregnant, and a pregnancy (or actually, the birth that would follow such a pregnancy) would kill her.

So while Rhaegar would have still been married to Elia, he would not be having sex with her.

In addition, it is highly possible that Rhaegar and Lyanna had gotten married (for a rather detailed explanation, ask the question of whether that was possible in the pinned R+L=J thread), in which case Rhaegar would not be cheating. And Lyanna, being the only wife of Rhaegar that wouldn't die due to pregnancy, might also feel that emotionally, there was no cheating going on..

Targaryens had practised polygamy before (as Ygrain posts while I am typing), and never is there ever any indication given that a polygamous marriage might have been made illegal, suggesting that it is still legal, just not practised that frequently.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

If they married, it wasn't cheating, though. Curious that Lyanna made away with the single young man in Westeros whose family tradition and social rank allowed for this solution.

Criticizing Lyanna for making a choice while we have absolutely no idea what was going on, it a bit much, no?

Elia would die if she had to birth another child, which could suggest that Rhaegar, from Aegon's birth on, might have chosen to not sleep with Elia again. It could get her pregnant, and a pregnancy (or actually, the birth that would follow such a pregnancy) would kill her.

So while Rhaegar would have still been married to Elia, he would not be having sex with her.

In addition, it is highly possible that Rhaegar and Lyanna had gotten married (for a rather detailed explanation, ask the question of whether that was possible in the pinned R+L=J thread), in which case Rhaegar would not be cheating. And Lyanna, being the only wife of Rhaegar that wouldn't die due to pregnancy, might also feel that emotionally, there was no cheating going on..

Targaryens had practised polygamy before (as Ygrain posts while I am typing), and never is there ever any indication given that a polygamous marriage might have been made illegal, suggesting that it is still legal, just not practised that frequently.

So your point is that having a polygamous relationship with a man from a family entitled to multiple wives, is somehow better than being the only wife of a man who cheated and whored? I think that you both are correct in assuming it may have been different in Lyanna's view and especially considering her emotional involvement (if true), but at face value, its just kind of the same thing, only legtimized by the fact that Targaryens don´t have to play by the same rules as the rest of mankind because 'tradition.' In one a guy who is supposed to be with one women is with two women and in the other a guy is with multiple women.

[WSmith84]

It is somewhat depressing how many people like to insinuate that Elia must have been totally OK with Rhaegar marrying someone else. Isn't this series filled with morally grey characters? Is it so hard to believe that, in a moment of love and passion, Rhaegar hurt and betrayed his wife? And if Rhaegar and Elia were no longer having sex due to the risk of pregnancy (I have no idea why that would be the case, seeing as they seem to have a perfectly good contraceptive/abortive in Westeros) I don't agree that that means that Rhaegar wasn't cheating. If me and my girlfriend aren't having sex, for personal or health reasons, it doesn't mean I can go bang some other girl and say to her, 'hey, it's not cheating, I can't/am choosing not to have sex with my other girlfriend, so it's totally fine.'

As to the polygamy bit, it doesn't make an iota of difference as to whether Rhaegar was being unfaithful or not. If polygamy was legal in the UK and I was married and my wife went out one weekend, met someone, married them and slept with them, I would still consider it cheating. Legal status means nothing in this case. All that matters is how each of them felt. Rhaegar felt like he was being unfaithful? He was being unfaithful. Elia felt Rhaegar was being unfaithful? He was being unfaithful. Lyanna felt Rhaegar was being unfaithful? He was being unfaithful. If all three of them were totally fine and happy with the R+L situation, then Rhaegar was not being unfaithful. I just find it a bit hard to swallow that they were all fine with it.

As for the political ramifications, R+L made Westeros a tinderbox, Brandon lit a spark and Aerys heaved a pot of wildfire at it.

[Ygrain]

So your point is that having a polygamous relationship with a man from a family entitled to multiple wives, is somehow better than being the only wife of a man who cheated and whored? I think that you both are correct in assuming it may have been different in Lyanna's view and especially considering her emotional involvement (if true), but at face value, its just kind of the same thing, only legtimized by the fact that Targaryens don´t have to play by the same rules as the rest of mankind because 'tradition.' In one a guy who is supposed to be with one women is with two women and in the other a guy is with multiple women.

You're biased by your cultural tradition. Polygamy =/= adultery.