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Daenerys the betrayer


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The problem with the "oppressed classes" in Westeros is that they are not the same "oppressed classes" as the slaves in Essos. And Dany can't offer them anything. Freeing them? Not possible, they are already free. Better lives? Can't deliver. Furthermore, the Faith and the common laws have a strong influence on the smallfolk and we know their stance on incest-spawn, breaking treaties, attacking one's host under their "roof", attacking envoys and inconsistent judgement. The situations are hardly comparable and I fully expect that to be the cause for the biggest reality shock in the entire series.

She obviously can't offer them abolition, but the smallfolk are repeatedly noted as being miserable and sick of being used. They are already banding together in various forms (whether the BwB or the sparrows business) demanding more rights-- meaning, they want something to change and have been looking for a champion. As it happens, being a champion of that sort is Dany's specialty.

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You cant become a conquerer without getting a little blood on your hands...

Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought Nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably, and Rhaegar died

Rheagar waited all that time , Rhaegar fought once, Rheagar did nothing Nobly and Rhaegar died.

Robert fought three battles in one day, Robert fought valliantly, Robert fought tirelessly, Robert fought endlessly, Robert won because he earned it.

A little blood you say I say mass murder with no benefits to anyone.Slaves are free from what?They became Danys slaves that is all the difference they opened fighting pits, she crucified people she ordered innocent people tortured and you say it is little blood!!!Ned tortured noone, Jon tortured noone, Robb tortured noone.Ramsay oredered torture, Tywin ordered torture, Dany ordered torture.You see with whom she is equal right now?

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She obviously can't offer them abolition, but the smallfolk are repeatedly noted as being miserable and sick of being used. They are already banding together in various forms (whether the BwB or the sparrows business) demanding more rights-- meaning, they want something to change and have been looking for a champion. As it happens, being a champion of that sort is Dany's specialty.

North had no smallfolk revolt.They are dying to see a Stark.North was ruled well for thousands of years they were already happy with Starks.Mountain clans came all the way to save Neds little girl.South needs someone to change the way they live but North was already ruled well.All they need is a Stark because Starks don't cheat or plot against people.

Dany isn't a champion for change be cause she can't change or deliver what she promised.Dany is a destroyer she burns and people must build after her.That is what Dany is.

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We don't know what proportion of the population of Essos' city-states is free, but lower, or middle class. But, we do know that these people exist. They have good reason to side with the elites against Dany, as freeing the slaves and sacking cities hits them hardest.

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Rheagar waited all that time , Rhaegar fought once, Rheagar did nothing Nobly and Rhaegar died.

Robert fought three battles in one day, Robert fought valliantly, Robert fought tirelessly, Robert fought endlessly, Robert won because he earned it.

A little blood you say I say mass murder with no benefits to anyone.Slaves are free from what?They became Danys slaves that is all the difference they opened fighting pits, she crucified people she ordered innocent people tortured and you say it is little blood!!!Ned tortured noone, Jon tortured noone, Robb tortured noone.Ramsay oredered torture, Tywin ordered torture, Dany ordered torture.You see with whom she is equal right now?

Stannis employs a torturer, the Arryns put people in sky cells (torture), the NW tortured wildlings, it would be naive to think many Westerosi lords dont utilize it. And like the other thread we were discussing Robb, I honestly don't see how anyone can paint him as some kind of saint.
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Going by our laws, Ned was also a rapist, he married Cat when she was 13.

18. As was he himself.

You mean Tyrion. Or Drogo, her sun-and-stars.

She obviously can't offer them abolition, but the smallfolk are repeatedly noted as being miserable and sick of being used. They are already banding together in various forms (whether the BwB or the sparrows business) demanding more rights-- meaning, they want something to change and have been looking for a champion. As it happens, being a champion of that sort is Dany's specialty.

That place is filled though. The High Sparrow and Lady Stoneheart in the South, the Starks/Stannis in the North and Jon Snow beyond the Wall.

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Stannis employs a torturer, the Arryns put people in sky cells (torture), the NW tortured wildlings, it would be naive to think many Westerosi lords dont utilize it. And like the other thread we were discussing Robb, I honestly don't see how anyone can paint him as some kind of saint.

Not sure about the wildlings example, but we have no proof if Stannis or certain Arryns torture innocents(lysa did, but she was mad f).

We have proof Dany does.

While, I'm not saying its okay for Stannis or Arryns to do what they do, Dany's use of torture is more vile from what we know.

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Going by our laws, Ned was also a rapist, he married Cat when she was 13.

Don't bring Ned into this he made no shady moves in his entire life.Rhaegar stashed Lyanna somewhere to make a baby with her while people died to find her.Rhaegar is the biggest jerk of all I don't care about their love or their insane desire for each other.Rhaegar did nothing noble he hide his cowardly ass while Ned and Robert fought and bleed to find Lyanna and avange Rickard and Brandon.Ned is the most honorable men that ever lived in Westeros.

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North had no smallfolk revolt.They are dying to see a Stark.North was ruled well for thousands of years they were already happy with Starks.Mountain clans came all the way to save Neds little girl.South needs someone to change the way they live but North was already ruled well.All they need is a Stark because Starks don't cheat or plot against people.

Dany isn't a champion for change be cause she can't change or deliver what she promised.Dany is a destroyer she burns and people must build after her.That is what Dany is.

The Starks of old were hard, cold, kings. Assuming they were all like Ned for 8,000 years is naive. They didn't hold that size of a kingdom all that time by being sweethearts that everyone loved.
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Rheagar waited all that time , Rhaegar fought once, Rheagar did nothing Nobly and Rhaegar died.

Robert fought three battles in one day, Robert fought valliantly, Robert fought tirelessly, Robert fought endlessly, Robert won because he earned it.

A little blood you say I say mass murder with no benefits to anyone.Slaves are free from what?They became Danys slaves that is all the difference they opened fighting pits, she crucified people she ordered innocent people tortured and you say it is little blood!!!Ned tortured noone, Jon tortured noone, Robb tortured noone.Ramsay oredered torture, Tywin ordered torture, Dany ordered torture.You see with whom she is equal right now?

Robert ordered the death of children... He is no saint...

Ned Stark has killed many a man, and Jon Snow is a half a wildling who would turn the realm over to raiders and rapers...

Robb doomed his people just for a taste of some cunny.

Ramsay and Tywin would torture the innocent... Dany would Torture slavers.. I see a big difference there.

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Not sure about the wildlings example, but we have no proof if Stannis or certain Arryns torture innocents(lysa did, but she was mad f).

We have proof Dany does.

While, I'm not saying its okay for Stannis or Arryns to do what they do, Dany's use of torture is more vile from what we know.

And how can her use of torture be more vile if you have no proof Stannis or the Arryns tortured people? What are you comparing it to?

I do have proof Stannis ordered people tortured (he employs a torturer, you know). What proof do you have Dany tortured innocents?

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I find it interesting that the crowd that normally likes to argue "right of conquest", "whoever has the power to do it has the right to do it", "might is right" etc. is not jumping in to defend Dany here. Could it be that those sorts of sentences only make sense when arguing against her claim but not for her?


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