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Daenerys the betrayer


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North had no smallfolk revolt.They are dying to see a Stark.North was ruled well for thousands of years they were already happy with Starks.Mountain clans came all the way to save Neds little girl.South needs someone to change the way they live but North was already ruled well.All they need is a Stark because Starks don't cheat or plot against people.

Dany isn't a champion for change be cause she can't change or deliver what she promised.Dany is a destroyer she burns and people must build after her.That is what Dany is.

What does the North have to do with this? Below the Neck, especially in the Riverlands, the smallfolk are incredibly restless and pissed off, and have actually started marching on KL in protests, doing demonstrations. This really can't be denied. Some are already following the leaders of the faith and the BwB to champion their cause. If they're willing to follow these people, who have little chance actually effecting results, don't you think a person with a dragon speaking on their behalf will have no trouble?

Destruction and rebuilding are 2 separate things. I agree that Dany neither can nor wants to rebuild. But she can, and has, interrupted systems, which provides an opening for renewal of some sort. I see no issue with the prospect that Dany champions the smallfolk in some capacity, then someone else comes in to restructure things. The point is that Dany is most likely going to be seen as a champion by the smallfolk, especially when, as you and others point out, she's going to be shunned by many of the lords.

That place is filled though. The High Sparrow and Lady Stoneheart in the South, the Starks/Stannis in the North and Jon Snow beyond the Wall.

You don't think that Dany, with "Breaker of Chains" on her resume, and in possession of a dragon might supplant these extant figures and draw even more unified support?

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In a way, Dany does appear as vile as the Freys - and that image will spread.

Amm no? The Freys betrayed their leige lord, who they had given their oath to, for a marriage pact. Dany just lied to some slavers for two reasons, one being for her own benifit but the other is because she feels slavery is wrong and imediately she frees the unsullied.

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Suggs liked to torture women on Dragonstone.

Qhorin Halfand used torture against Wildlings.

I don't know about Qhorin Halfhand's example. I'll reread it sometime later.

But we know little about Sugg's torturing people/women on Dragonstone.

For all we know, they could have been PROVEN baby/child murderers and slavers..

Wait, don't Dany fans cheer at MMD's burning because she was a baby killer? Don't Dany fans cheer for the 163 crucifixions?

???

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Wait, don't Dany fans cheer at MMD's burning because she was a baby killer? Don't Dany fans cheer for the 163 crucifixions?

They do. But they forget that MMD didn't killed Rhaego and that there was no actual evidence that those 163 was those who ordered the killings.

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Dany is the breaker of chains...

Saving hundreds of thousands of innocents, while torturting a few... I'd say thats a fair trade.

Tywin and Ramsay would save no one but themselves.

Dany is responsible for the death of quite a bit you know. Even innocents.

Your really reaching.

Actually I'm not.

What proof do you have that those people that Stannis had tortured on Dragonstone are innocent?

Here's the amount of proof you have:

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Not sure about the wildlings example, but we have no proof if Stannis or certain Arryns torture innocents(lysa did, but she was mad f).

We have proof Dany does.

While, I'm not saying its okay for Stannis or Arryns to do what they do, Dany's use of torture is more vile from what we know.

We do know from Ser Justin Massey that "young women" get tortured on Dragonstone, because Ser Clayton Suggs likes to join in. We also know that Mord has spent "a lifetime" abusing prisoners.

It may be that Stannis and Jon Arryn don't know everything that's done in their names, but they have to take responsibility, being the people in charge.

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Yeah i know that but what are you implying here?

Are you implying he tortures innocents?

Torturing is grossly wrong though. I want to make that clear.

We are both well aware of what you are talking about. But what Massey said does not imply Stannis had innocents tortured.

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