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Too many new cast members for season 5?


Constantinople

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Daeron has been named in season 1 (and played by an extra) and season 3, when Sam sing to Gilly's baby, and since he's a small character I don't see any problem introducing him as a new character in season 5, he won't last more than 2 or 3 episodes, and doesn't need any development or screentime at all, just being an asshole to Sam and Gilly, desert, and his meeting Cat of the canals

It's not necessary though. They've got Pyp who has room to be developed in that way and who doesn't do much in the books, so why introduce a brand new character. Daeron in S1 was just a name drop.

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In the end, the question is "do you want a faithful adaptation of ASOIAF" or continue the "Khaleesi, Imp and Arya show, with sporadic appearance of Ned Stark's bastard and dumb ginger Stark". Needless to say, I prefer the former

See but I don't think AFFC was a good book, and I don't want it faithfully adapted. I want it glossed over as quickly as possible while remaining true to the characters and plotlines established in the previous books. ADWD was better, but its way too expansive for the show and needs to be parred down.

Anyway, I don't want to see Dorne completely cut, I just don't want it pushing everything else to the side; which it would if the show spends the all time necessary for establishing all the characters in the Myrcella conspiracy, showing it play out, introducing and establishing Doran (which I think does need to happen), explaining their loyalty to the Targs, sending Quentyn to Dany, etc. Every plotline has had sacrifices already, Stannis has had all of 33 minutes of screentime over 2 seasons for instance, and he's a major secondary character; so Dorne can stand see parts of its storyline be cut as well.

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See but I don't think AFFC was a good book, and I don't want it faithfully adapted. I want it glossed over as quickly as possible while remaining true to the characters and plotlines established in the previous books. ADWD was better, but its way too expansive for the show and needs to be parred down.

Anyway, I don't want to see Dorne completely cut, I just don't want it pushing everything else to the side; which it would if the show spends the all time necessary for establishing all the characters in the Myrcella conspiracy, showing it play out, introducing and establishing Doran (which I think does need to happen), explaining their loyalty to the Targs, sending Quentyn to Dany, etc. Every plotline has had sacrifices already, Stannis has had all of 33 minutes of screentime over 2 seasons for instance, and he's a major secondary character; so Dorne can stand see parts of its storyline be cut as well.

If you didn't think AFFC was a good book, then you can hardly claim to be in anyway objective when talking about adapting it. It was my least favourite of the 5 by quite a large margin, but I still thought it was a very good book.

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Guessing you refer to the redhead in 3x1 (who isn’t actually a redhead btw) before he´s summoned to Tyrion. That´s like a 20 second segment before Pod shows up so it´s either that or Pod finding Bronn doing some other mundane thing. I guess they could have had Bronn show up directly at Tyrion.. Oh well. But Bronn is another fan favorite and that scene was funny. - I will murder you boy!

Well he was asking for a completely pointless brothel scene and I gave him one. ;D

See but I don't think AFFC was a good book, and I don't want it faithfully adapted. I want it glossed over as quickly as possible while remaining true to the characters and plotlines established in the previous books. ADWD was better, but its way too expansive for the show and needs to be parred down.

Anyway, I don't want to see Dorne completely cut, I just don't want it pushing everything else to the side; which it would if the show spends the all time necessary for establishing all the characters in the Myrcella conspiracy, showing it play out, introducing and establishing Doran (which I think does need to happen), explaining their loyalty to the Targs, sending Quentyn to Dany, etc. Every plotline has had sacrifices already, Stannis has had all of 33 minutes of screentime over 2 seasons for instance, and he's a major secondary character; so Dorne can stand see parts of its storyline be cut as well.

Well, if you want Dorne in, but you don't want Myrcella's crowning, then there's like nothing left besides Balon Swann ariving (very late in the current timeline) and it would lose all the spice that Dorne offers.

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If you didn't think AFFC was a good book, then you can hardly claim to be in anyway objective when talking about adapting it. It was my least favourite of the 5 by quite a large margin, but I still thought it was a very good book.

And why excactly are you more objective than him? Because you liked it and he didn't?

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And why excactly are you more objective than him? Because you liked it and he didn't?

Let's see:

If you were hiring screenwriters to adapt, say, a newest bestseller for the big screen, and a candidate told you: "I think the book is crap", would you hire the guy to adapt the book he hates?

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Let's see:

If you were hiring screenwriters to adapt, say, a newest bestseller for the big screen, and a candidate told you: "I think the book is crap", would you hire the guy to adapt the book he hates?

I quite like AFFC, but there's a big difference between being hired to adapt a single book and being hired to adapt a series of books, which will necessarily be of variable quality. The different media will also have different requirements (I'm far less down on AFFC and ADWD than are many people in the fandom, but those books pose enormous challenges to anybody trying to turn them into a TV show).

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I don't know if this has been brought up but in the trailer Oberyn is talking to Tyrion, presumably, and he says "tell your father I'm here." I think this indicates that they were expecting Doran, so I think it's safe to assume that they're including him in the show, otherwise they could easily just make Oberyn the Prince of Dorne.


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I quite like AFFC, but there's a big difference between being hired to adapt a single book and being hired to adapt a series of books, which will necessarily be of variable quality. The different media will also have different requirements (I'm far less down on AFFC and ADWD than are many people in the fandom, but those books pose enormous challenges to anybody trying to turn them into a TV show).

Even so, if this candidate in the hypothetical scenario I presented dislikes an entire book and thinks it should be pretty much gotten rid of (or most of it), you'd have a problem. If nothing else, you'd know you would have to bring a few other writers for different input. Imagine telling the original author: "We really love your saga and we want to do a really faithful adaptation of it, but book 4 was crap, so we don't really want to adapt that one. We'll just get rid of most of the storylines and the new characters that you introduced."

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I don't know if this has been brought up but in the trailer Oberyn is talking to Tyrion, presumably, and he says "tell your father I'm here." I think this indicates that they were expecting Doran, so I think it's safe to assume that they're including him in the show, otherwise they could easily just make Oberyn the Prince of Dorne.

Sorry if this is of topic but you talking of Oberyn arriving in Kingslanding made me think about it.

In the books of course there’s bad blood between Highgarden and Dorne because of the Willas incident. Now since the show has dropped both the older Tyrell brothers that seems unlikely to be the case. They could just drop it but I think that would be a mistake since they lose some character structure that wouldn’t take up much time to explain.

So my point is could they make it so that Oberyn actually killed Willas/Garlan?

That would definitely cause some friction between him and Mace giving people one extra reason to immediately care about the two new characters. Also it would give us more reason to hang around the Tyrells which cameras seem fond of doing.

PS. I actually don´t remember if this was in the books so if it is I´m very ashamed. But could it have been the Tyrells intension to blame the PW on Oberyn? If that´s the case I think it would mix nicely into the show.

PPS. Even more of topic, I am under the impression we will likely get a quite nasty sex scene between Joff and Marg and that will be the actual cause of the PW since it shows their attempts to control him is futile. So the Oberyn frame would just be a convenience.

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Sorry if this is of topic but you talking of Oberyn arriving in Kingslanding made me think about it.

In the books of course there’s bad blood between Highgarden and Dorne because of the Willas incident. Now since the show has dropped both the older Tyrell brothers that seems unlikely to be the case. They could just drop it but I think that would be a mistake since they lose some character structure that wouldn’t take up much time to explain.

So my point is could they make it so that Oberyn actually killed Willas/Garlan?

That would definitely cause some friction between him and Mace giving people one extra reason to immediately care about the two new characters. Also it would give us more reason to hang around the Tyrells which cameras seem fond of doing.

PS. I actually don´t remember if this was in the books so if it is I´m very ashamed. But could it have been the Tyrells intension to blame the PW on Oberyn? If that´s the case I think it would mix nicely into the show.

PPS. Even more of topic, I am under the impression we will likely get a quite nasty sex scene between Joff and Marg and that will be the actual cause of the PW since it shows their attempts to control him is futile. So the Oberyn frame would just be a convenience.

I doubt either of those things will happen. In the books there's a nice little layer to Oberyn/Willas' story because Willas bears Oberyn no ill will. This is taken away if Oberyn accidentally kills the Tyrell's first son. The explanation of a centuries old blood feud is more than enough. As for a Marg/Joff sex scene I really doubt it. That would be cause for all out war. The impetus for the PW is Sansa telling Marg and Olenna that Joffrey is a monster. Nothing else needs to happen.

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Sorry if this is of topic but you talking of Oberyn arriving in Kingslanding made me think about it.

In the books of course there’s bad blood between Highgarden and Dorne because of the Willas incident. Now since the show has dropped both the older Tyrell brothers that seems unlikely to be the case. They could just drop it but I think that would be a mistake since they lose some character structure that wouldn’t take up much time to explain.

So my point is could they make it so that Oberyn actually killed Willas/Garlan?

That would definitely cause some friction between him and Mace giving people one extra reason to immediately care about the two new characters. Also it would give us more reason to hang around the Tyrells which cameras seem fond of doing.

I think some people have mentioned that before, but I recon that would work quite well, since they have already made as if Loras is the heir to Highgarden, in season 3, with Tywin threatening Queen of Thorns by putting Loras in KG. So would be great that Oberyn killed the eldest brother and original heir to highgarden. As far as MAce blaming Oberyn im not really sure, but could be included in the show to show everyone is blaming different people for killing jofferey

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I doubt either of those things will happen. In the books there's a nice little layer to Oberyn/Willas' story because Willas bears Oberyn no ill will. This is taken away if Oberyn accidentally kills the Tyrell's first son. The explanation of a centuries old blood feud is more than enough. As for a Marg/Joff sex scene I really doubt it. That would be cause for all out war. The impetus for the PW is Sansa telling Marg and Olenna that Joffrey is a monster. Nothing else needs to happen.

But if they kill him “because his a monster" there’s no explanation for all the time Marg spent trying to control and get close to him in the show. They would just have killed him straight away.

I think some people have mentioned that before, but I recon that would work quite well, since they have already made as if Loras is the heir to Highgarden, in season 3, with Tywin threatening Queen of Thorns by putting Loras in KG. So would be great that Oberyn killed the eldest brother and original heir to highgarden. As far as MAce blaming Oberyn im not really sure, but could be included in the show to show everyone is blaming different people for killing jofferey

I´m not saying they should openly blame Oberyn but there could be a scene after PW with the Tyrells talking and mentioning that they meant for the blame to fall on Oberyn, him being the natural suspect when looking for a poisoner. This would also be an opportune time to bring that up so people know why he´s called Red viper and understand what happens to TMTR after their duel. I think it fits seamlessly into the plot.

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I´m not saying they should openly blame Oberyn but there could be a scene after PW with the Tyrells talking and mentioning that they meant for the blame to fall on Oberyn, him being the natural suspect when looking for a poisoner.

That wouldn't make any sense. It would be dangerous for Littlefinger and the Tyrells not to be agreed on the fall-guy, and there'd be no reason why the Tyrells would object to it being Tyrion.

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That wouldn't make any sense. It would be dangerous for Littlefinger and the Tyrells not to be agreed on the fall-guy, and there'd be no reason why the Tyrells would object to it being Tyrion.

Well it´s possible they wouldn’t know who the other guy wanted to frame. Speaking of which, how can LF possible know who is going to get accused when it´s Cersei doing the accusing?

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PPS. Even more of topic, I am under the impression we will likely get a quite nasty sex scene between Joff and Marg and that will be the actual cause of the PW since it shows their attempts to control him is futile. So the Oberyn frame would just be a convenience.

Absolutely not. Margaery's whole trial later on is based around whether she's lying about being a virgin or not, so creating this scene would completely change that whole thing. Cersei would know if that happened and then there wouldn't be any mystery at all about whether or not Margaery is lying.

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But if they kill him “because his a monster" there’s no explanation for all the time Marg spent trying to control and get close to him in the show. They would just have killed him straight away.

Then Marg wouldn't have become a queen. They couldn't have been sure that she was going to marry Tommen. What's more perfect that killing him at his wedding and framing it on someone?

Why would Margaery want to have sex with Joffrey before the wedding? It's not like she's incredibly attracted to him. There's no practical reason to. And she's far too smart. The Lannisters would not have agreed to marry her to another family member after she had slept with Joffrey, it would be too icky and incestuous (oh the irony) for the public to accept.

Besides, the whole concept of Marg's trial is dependent on her officially being a virgin.

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Well it´s possible they wouldn’t know who the other guy wanted to frame. Speaking of which, how can LF possible know who is going to get accused when it´s Cersei doing the accusing?

Because he knows Cersei?

And they also had Sansa as the fall-girl. Sansa and Tyrion working together is a much easier story to sell, than Sansa working with the RV.

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Then Marg wouldn't have become a queen. They couldn't have been sure that she was going to marry Tommen. What's more perfect that killing him at his wedding and framing it on someone?

Why would Margaery want to have sex with Joffrey before the wedding? It's not like she's incredibly attracted to him. There's no practical reason to. And she's far too smart. The Lannisters would not have agreed to marry her to another family member after she had slept with Joffrey, it would be too icky and incestuous (oh the irony) for the public to accept.

Why does it make any difference if they kill him on his wedding or before?

I´m not saying Margeary wants to sleep with him. If there’s anything we know about Joffrey it´s that he´s reckless so if he felt the urge he would and could just bounce on her. Margaery wouldn´t be in a position to deny him. But it would show her she can´t control him so her only way out would be to conspire to kill him.

Absolutely not. Margaery's whole trial later on is based around whether she's lying about being a virgin or not, so creating this scene would completely change that whole thing. Cersei would know if that happened and then there wouldn't be any mystery at all about whether or not Margaery is lying.

Besides, the whole concept of Marg's trial is dependent on her officially being a virgin.

Why do you both assume anyone would know? He could just rape her and the only ones who would know would be them and whoever they decide to tell. Joffrey wouldn’t tell anyone so it won’t make any difference regarding the trial.

Because he knows Cersei?

And they also had Sansa as the fall-girl. Sansa and Tyrion working together is a much easier story to sell, than Sansa working with the RV.

“Because he knows Cersie” I’ve always felt is a bit of a flaky argument.

And why do they need Sansa as fall-girl? Their story could just be – Oh the King was poisoned! One of the guys present is a “known” poisoner who has reason to hate and take ravenge on the Lannisters- That actually seems more logical than blaming Tyrion. That is unless you know LF is going to remove Sansa.

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