PrimeRhaegar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes hell you have worse 11 year olds in the world out there. Places like Sudan, cote d'ivoire, somalia etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyti_Von_Totiy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 A 10 year old girl ninja? I lost intrest in her and her storyline the moment she got out of King Landing. Sansa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound2.0 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 In the sense of her struggles, throughout the book. I would say, yes. During her time, being lost in the Riverlands with Gendry and company; more times than not, they were on the verge of starvation and death. Which IMO, is very realistic for a person of her age.As for the times, she has killed both men and other children; you need only look at the "Child Soldiers of Africa." Thousands of accounts of kids, who are thrust in to conflict and have the ability to kill, as easy as grown ups. **Ninja'd above**As for the magical wargging and possible FM stuff...well, this is a fantasy story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thornhart Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Really I'd like some detail because based on my daughter I disagree. At outer envelope maybe but not defiantly un realistic. Couldn't agree more because based on myself at her age and my children, 4 nieces & all there friends, Arya is a fair representation of middle school kids. I love Sansa but she'd be eaten alive anywhere near my house ;) Uh-huh. I'm sure all of your children are just the, absolute, greatest... But the truth is if any 9-11 year old girl were in Arya's shoes, they wouldn't even make it out of the Harrenhell adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrax Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think the comparison is that while she is not a soldier in an army, paramilitary group, terrorist group, etc. using a machete, cyanide or what have you she has a lot of the same factors that they do in how this happens, she has a similar psychological effect, and while I didn't post anything about it the demobilization and reintegration process is also a question with Arya. I appreciate you taking the time and positing those excerpts. And yes -- I agree that she has some things in common with child soldiers, but why wouldn't she? They are all children in distress, traumatized, scared, etc. and GRRM was clearly inspired by this phenomenon. But Arya would also share these similarities with children who join gangs, become drug couriers, thieves, and even prostitutes - basically, all who are trying to survive. The articles you cite talk in general terms about a broad group of children all over the world, and none of them really explain how a 10 year old girl can turn into a murderer by herself. I was talking about a specific gender and age group, being capable of doing specific acts and making certain decisions. There is enormous difference between a 10 year old and a 14 year old, and between male and female psyche. Turning a girl this young into a killer would almost certainly require deliberate effort from a 3rd party. And even if such child would be able to kill, it's still debatable whether they'd fully grasp what they are doing. IMO Arya shows a completely different type mindset and behavior before ever setting foot in FM temple. She commits a calculated and dare I say, tactical murder. This is nowhere near the same ballpark as just being violent or aggressive. By the way, shall we agree to disagree? I just don't feel particularly motivated to debate this as I have no moral objections if you believe she resembles a child soldier. I just happen to have a different opinion. :) It is not as black and white as that. Maybe not, but if she's under magical influence, then the question of realism becomes somewhat meaningless. I thought that just for the sake of discussion, it makes more sense to look at her as just a normal girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes hell you have worse 11 year olds in the world out there. Places like Sudan, cote d'ivoire, somalia etc. ^This Read up on what some of these kids in terrible war-torn countries do to survive, Arya's example is quite tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 A 10 year old girl ninja? I lost intrest in her and her storyline the moment she got out of King Landing. Sansa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arya Apparently we're not talking about the same character, cause there is nothing ninja about this girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiola Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Realistic in personality? Yes. Her plotline though is full of contrived and implausible moments. Basically this. Her sort of downward spiral into darkness given all the things she's seen, and how she tries to cope, are realistic and fascinating. Buuuuut there's a lot of suspension of disbelief for me when reading her chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Maybe not, but if she's under magical influence, then the question of realism becomes somewhat meaningless. I thought that just for the sake of discussion, it makes more sense to look at her as just a normal girl. Her character does has certain spiritual powers so you are correct that realism in its truest form is mute with her. Uh-huh. I'm sure all of your children are just the, absolute, greatest... But the truth is if any 9-11 year old girl were in Arya's shoes, they wouldn't even make it out of the Harrenhell adventure. This is it in the nutshell, although I would not say any.....The hard truth though is Nymeria helped her out of Harrenhal with possibly Bran/Bloodraven speaking to her in the Godswood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yes, book Arya is pretty realistic. Fan Arya isn't. A lot of of deeds or skills attributed to Arya don't exist in the books but are an invention of the fandom. So is Sansa. I'm talking about her ability to fight, assassinate and live in the wilderness. And that is exactly the fandom Arya I'm talking about. Arya can't fight. She could fight Hot Pie or Lommy, but never in the entire series did she participate in an at least somewhat fair fight. She hacked on hands with the owner being helpless hanging from a wall, she slit some unsuspecting guard's throat while he was totally helpless, she stabbed an unsuspecting squire her own age. But she never fought. She can't. Arya is no assassin (yet). She was taken by the hand almost the entire way. Good teaching, but the teacher was always there to correct mistakes. Arya can't live in the wilderness. She can't successfully navigate the countryside. She can't gather enough food. Between her long, long periods with adults caring for that need, Arya, Gendry and Hot Pie are lost and starving. This. Yes, Arya is a realistic, plausible and relatable character. She's not super-human and does not have incredible capabilities to fight or survive in the wilderness. She did not "fight her way out of King's Landing" as some people claim (when they want to put Sansa down) or fight her way through Westeros or survive all on her own. She would have been dead long time ago if it hadn't been for people who were willing to help her, from Yoren to Jaqen to Sandor. On the other hand, the other extreme view expressed here - that she only survived through "pure dumb luck" - is also incorrect. Arya did not sit around and cry and just had people come over and offer her help. She's endured a lot; sure, one may say she is lucky for not getting killed or raped considering everything she's been through, but she also had a lot of bad luck, considering her father, mother and eldest brother were murdered, she believes almost all of her family is dead, she has been separated from her family, she met a bunch of creepy people and witnessed horrific events, she was mistreated and abused at Harenthal, she's been threatened with worse and she has been traumatized and filled with anger that's eaten away at her soul. Could she have been dead many times over during her arc? Yes. She does have a plot armor. But so does pretty much every other major character who's survived till now. They've all been through a lot of crap, or else they wouldn't even be major characters in such a series. I don't see people complaining about Davos' plot armor, and he's even been presumed dead twice. It's not like Arya survived just because of luck of others offering her help even though she tends to refuse it. She wouldn't have survived if she wasn't determined to, every step of the way, and if she hadn't been fighting to survive. Arya is not a warrior woman or a great fighter, she's a skinny little girl with a little bit of sword training. But she has a great fighting spirit - she is determined, defiant, resourceful, she has shown herself to be smart and able to come up with ways to make the best of what she knows, and she never gives up. Of course, there is a dark side to that - her anger is what drives her and what gives her her fire, but it's also what has made her murderous, ruthless and vengeance-driven, and what's left such a hole in her heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWinter Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Arya killed Dareon in some dark alley and robbed his corpse of boots. This to me seems less like Arya remembering her Stark identity and more like her following the ways of the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Arya killed Dareon in some dark alley and robbed his corpse of boots. This to me seems less like Arya remembering her Stark identity and more like her following the ways of the Hound. Remind of the time in ASOS when we saw Sandor kill people on the road just because he didn't like them and their behavior, and proceed to rob them. Oh that's right, that never happened. In all of ASOS, as far as we and Arya know, he kills Beric while fighting for his life, mercy-kills one badly wounded guy who asked for the gift of mercy, kills a few Freys in self-defense/trying to save Arya, and kills Polliver in a fight at the inn, in self-defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Smirking Revenge Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Basically this. Her sort of downward spiral into darkness given all the things she's seen, and how she tries to cope, are realistic and fascinating. Buuuuut there's a lot of suspension of disbelief for me when reading her chapters. Imagine that. Never understood this criticism considering people are reading a fantasy series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mia B. Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 She's been though a lot more than many kids her age, whether in real life or in Westeros. She hasn't had many other choices to go with seeing that she's wanted back home. While the FM parts and her traveling across the sea alone aren't realistic in our world, in Westeros, they don't have the laws, border controls, and "magic" - or whatever it is the FM use - that we do. It's more of an extraordinary path than an unrealistic one, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneti Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's not like Arya survived just because of luck of others offering her help even though she tends to refuse it. She wouldn't have survived if she wasn't determined to, every step of the way, and if she hadn't been fighting to survive. Arya is not a warrior woman or a great fighter, she's a skinny little girl with a little bit of sword training. But she has a great fighting spirit - she is determined, defiant, resourceful, she has shown herself to be smart and able to come up with ways to make the best of what she knows, and she never gives up. Of course, there is a dark side to that - her anger is what drives her and what gives her her fire, but it's also what has made her murderous, ruthless and vengeance-driven, and what's left such a hole in her heart. This. Somebody once said: "By far the most important survival tool one can have is the will to survive." And Arya has that in spades. She is not particularly strong or skilled, but she is determined and learns very quickly (even though her stubborness often keeps her from using what she learned). So, yes, I find her pretty realistic. Or at least just as realistc as these two other plot armor characters: 1) Dany, who is so incompetent as a ruler that surely somebody would have gotten rid of her by now IRL and 2) Tyrion, who survives major battles despite being pretty much incapable of fighting properly (what with his frequent cramps and all) and who somehow manages to survive Grey Scale AND the Pale Mare while people around him die like flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Rules! Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Some can't handle a little girl being a badass. She has been hunted by the most powerful people in Westeros for a long time and seen things that would make grown men piss themselves. As the great poet James Hetfield once wrote. Kill em All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMR Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Another cheer for Arya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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