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Riurik Novgorod

Are the Others that evil?

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Mountain liked dogs too. It's kinda family tradition.


Also he was turned into Sleepy Hollow Rider, that's absolute redeeming quality.


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lol i dont buy this no one is truly evil bs even if its coming from the author



there's a lot of human characters in the books that are evil. arguably more evil than the others.


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lol i dont buy this no one is truly evil bs even if its coming from the author

there's a lot of human characters in the books that are evil. arguably more evil than the others.

But in GRRM's story they usually get a motivation. One can understand why they became how they are, or why they make the sort of decisions they do.

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Maybe the others see humans as destructive, lesser life forms, kind of like a parasite who are ruining the land so in their minds getting rid of them would be the best option. In that sense they're not evil. Remember, whether something is evil or not can depend on your point of view, in their point of view the others are doing the land a favor


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But in GRRM's story they usually get a motivation. One can understand why they became how they are, or why they make the sort of decisions they do.

But Others are Others. They are different. They don't have to have motivation.

I would really like if they'll remain completely alien all the time. Like the Ocean in Lem's Solaris.

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ok so I don't know if this is a theory or just bat-crap crazy, but I have reason to think that Bran might be the Great Other, at least his human form. Which would actually lend credence to the COTF being friendly-ish with the Others.


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I have a feeling about Others, maybe all the dead people in Westeros are transformed in White Walkers. I don't know, let's be crazy about it, some White Walkers seems to look like soldiers, or high born, low born, maybe Raeghar Targaryen is one of the leader and he will come back with Iced Dragons...hahaha



No seriously, it's interesting to think that "Others" are probably not the big Evil of the show, nothing is that simple with GRRM, maybe they are coming to fight "The Lord of Light", who knows, he might use Melisandre to make enough sacrifices for him to come back.

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Well they can't be completely evil, since they reached an agreement with Craster and honored it for years without any breaches.

If GRRM is interested in developing the story of the Others, it'd be interesting to learn how any people that mass an army to wipe out the living can be construed as anything but evil.

That proves that they are "civilized" not evil. Also as i remember that agreement involved sacrificing infant males.

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The idea of the complete evilness and overrunning the world was a problem for me in LotR. How were Saruon's allies to eat and live if the world was under a perpetual shadow? The same thing is bothering me in ASoI&F.



The Land of Always Winter has more going on than Others lurking. They forge weapons, Martin has told us this. They have a language -- and sense of humor --- they laugh. There is some kind of "fair dueling" practice that seems to go on on the POV from AGoT.



I am anxious to meet them. In theory


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Bran's first coma dream had him looking north to the Lands of Always Winter and seeing something that terrified him. So the question is, was that the Others, or was that something that the Others themselves are fleeing from?

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first of all i am sorry but regardless of what the writer said, there are pure evil and good characters in the saga. of course if killing everyone you met, or doing evil things to other people all the time as a life purpose is what you understand from pure evil, i dont think even sauron is pure evil. in the series i think there were a lot of pure evil characters, the mountain, cercei, joffrey, ramsey are the first ones i can think of. of course they have motives of their actions bla bla bla but they are evil. the characters who make things interesting are the good ones doing some bad or bad ones doing some good like jamie or arya because we sympathise with them. think about anakin or raistlin... also there are pure good characters like ned. i mean having a bastard son or making mistakes doesn't make you bad, they just make you human. so the others might be pure evil and that would make sense. also pure evil doesn't mean uncivilized. what i hope about this matter is a white walker pov character. wouldn't it be awesome?


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Bran's first coma dream had him looking north to the Lands of Always Winter and seeing something that terrified him. So the question is, was that the Others, or was that something that the Others themselves are fleeing from?

i don't know but it didn't read to me that they were "fleeing" anything...perhaps bran was afraid of the others, assuming that is what he saw or what he would have to do to survive or feel alive...remember the pleasure he gets from warging into an animal, 4 legged or 2, is in part a result of the freedom to move unaided...perhaps he sees that to be "healed" he will have to kill, or assume the identity someone he loves

The idea of the complete evilness and overrunning the world was a problem for me in LotR. How were Saruon's allies to eat and live if the world was under a perpetual shadow? The same thing is bothering me in ASoI&F.

The Land of Always Winter has more going on than Others lurking. They forge weapons, Martin has told us this. They have a language -- and sense of humor --- they laugh. There is some kind of "fair dueling" practice that seems to go on on the POV from AGoT.

I am anxious to meet them. In theory

i tend to believe that we will during the long dark winter...

I have a feeling about Others, maybe all the dead people in Westeros are transformed in White Walkers. I don't know, let's be crazy about it, some White Walkers seems to look like soldiers, or high born, low born, maybe Raeghar Targaryen is one of the leader and he will come back with Iced Dragons...hahaha

No seriously, it's interesting to think that "Others" are probably not the big Evil of the show, nothing is that simple with GRRM, maybe they are coming to fight "The Lord of Light", who knows, he might use Melisandre to make enough sacrifices for him to come back.

:agree:

But Others are Others. They are different. They don't have to have motivation.
I would really like if they'll remain completely alien all the time. Like the Ocean in Lem's Solaris.

i like this analogy

Maybe the others see humans as destructive, lesser life forms, kind of like a parasite who are ruining the land so in their minds getting rid of them would be the best option. In that sense they're not evil. Remember, whether something is evil or not can depend on your point of view, in their point of view the others are doing the land a favor

you mean like this

first of all i am sorry but regardless of what the writer said, there are pure evil and good characters in the saga. of course if killing everyone you met, or doing evil things to other people all the time as a life purpose is what you understand from pure evil, i dont think even sauron is pure evil. in the series i think there were a lot of pure evil characters, the mountain, cercei, joffrey, ramsey are the first ones i can think of. of course they have motives of their actions bla bla bla but they are evil. the characters who make things interesting are the good ones doing some bad or bad ones doing some good like jamie or arya because we sympathise with them. think about anakin or raistlin... also there are pure good characters like ned. i mean having a bastard son or making mistakes doesn't make you bad, they just make you human. so the others might be pure evil and that would make sense. also pure evil doesn't mean uncivilized. what i hope about this matter is a white walker pov character. wouldn't it be awesome?

those characters you named aren't evil...some are twisted sick fuckers to be sure filled with anger, hatred, selfishness and/or freakish fetishes but not evil, all have their things they enjoy even love...as someone stated above, even the mountain is loyal...

what is the purpose of the others...

we may never know but i would spend coin on a wager that we will...

:smoking:

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I agree with someone above, who said this:



How could destroying humanity be evil? If it is, then humans destroying animals to extinction is also purely evil.


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The idea of the complete evilness and overrunning the world was a problem for me in LotR. How were Saruon's allies to eat and live if the world was under a perpetual shadow?

To be pedantic, it is made clear that much of Mordor outside the Plateau of Gorgoroth in the north-west, which is despoiled by the constant eruptions of Mount Doom, is semi-habitable and can be used to grow crops, although it is implied that the use of slaves is necessary to get much out of the soil. Most of this agriculture (and the 'slave belt' of Mordor) is apparently concentrated around the Plains of Núrn http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Sea_of_N%C3%BArnen

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When Europeans came over to colonize, part of that meant slaughtering the native americans already there.



There is almost no difference between what the others are doing and that same mentality of manifest destiny; they're merely acting out of self interest, which is a far cry from pure evil.


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it started out as a blasphemy when i first said it......now a good 40% of this forum is on board with, no, theyre not evil, they were wronged, the wall was taken from them, and it's the night's watch to blame.



I will say this,



The Others can manipulate the cold, and ice.



Whats the wall made out of primarily?


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it started out as a blasphemy when i first said it......now a good 40% of this forum is on board with, no, theyre not evil, they were wronged, the wall was taken from them, and it's the night's watch to blame.

I will say this,

The Others can manipulate the cold, and ice.

Whats the wall made out of primarily?

This is a big misconception; the wall is equal parts stone, metal, and ice. The others don't work metal or stone, why would they need to when their ice serves the same purpose?

They weren't wronged, they're just two species fighting one another to survive, like Neanderthals and homo sapiens. There doesn't have to be wrong or right in this, which is a fundamental flaw in looking at the war for the dawn and the others.

This latest move smacks of desperation to me. The others haven't come in any sort of the numbers they've now been capable of or we have been told they are.

When they come, they will bring everything they've got, because they know if they lose, it's over. They either know something about when the cold comes or they're making it happen.

Westeros won't survive a long night; it just wasted half of its manpower in what was ultimately a pointless struggle. Kings Landing willl riot and people will freeze in their beds because you can't even go out for firewood, and let's not even begin to talk about food or the shuffling zombie hoard that only gets stronger everytime someone dies. This cold is probably some of the strongest magic we've ever seen in the series. Even if you stick up against all of this as best as possible, almost everyone is still going to die.

GRRM has said there will be a more or less satisfying de nou ment to the story, some of the characters will survive and westeros, or some of it at least will be okay on the scale relatively. The North is probably going to be the most screwed (besides kings landing which will obviously get destroyed by wildfire)

Because isn't that the point of the others? Only the Starks and their supporters are going to take this seriously apart from stannis, and the wall either has a huge exploitable weakness or will fall. Why can't the others have the horn, and waited until this winter to blow it; they had time, and of there's one thing you can count on its men repeating history, so all they to do was wait and build their own numbers. If it takes babies to make others, their own cold is going to kill them off first

So tl:dr yeah, making it out of ice and making people walk along it is gonna seem like a real bad idea later. They've waited thousands of years, and if they don't move there will be a whole civilization forming beyond the wall that could challenge them. Mance was a real threat to them I believe; even without threat of death from ww's, he still would probably have become a powerful king beyond the wall. If they discovered how to fight them, they could have potentially wiped out the white walkers and what or who is leading them, if anything or one.

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