Jon and Robb's age

[Allyria Winterborn]

Because Robb is CLAIMED to be older. But that's not necessarily true (because we know/suspect R+L). However, so far it's not canon, that's why it isn't in the wiki.

That was my initial question: who (in the books) claims Robb is older? Do you have a quote?

As far as I can remember, the books don't mention who is older, because it doesn't really matter as long as Jon is a bastard. That's why I was so intrigued when I saw that several Wiki pages stated as fact that Robb was older than Jon.

[Ygrain]

Ned claims that he dishonoured Catelyn by fathering a bastard when she was pregnant with Robb but this in no way means that it's true.

[the conquoring bastard25]

I think in an interview GRRM stated that Jon was the older brother. Which would explain a more immediate reason why Cat was concerned about making Jon legit. IF he was older than he could hold WF in his own right as the oldest brother.

Then there's the pattern of the books. We read or hear that Jon's turned 15 while at the wall. After learning that Robbs called his banners we find that he's 15. Jon turns 16 beyond the wall, while Robb turns 16 in the west. We hear about jon's birthday first then Robb's. Jon's the oldest. also explain how Jon got from Dorne all the way to WF before Cat and Robb

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think it's possible that Jon is slightly older; Ned himself may not even know for sure, because we don't know the exact date of Jon's birth, only a broad time span. What's important is that Robb is feasibly and plausibly the older of the two. I think the official story that Jon is younger stems from two things: 1. if they're actually of the same age, then Ned can't be off fathering Jon while he's knocking up Catelyn and 2. it gives Catelyn a little more peace of mind to know that Robb is the oldest regardless, making Jon somewhat less of a dynastic threat. Ned could have saved himself a lot of grief by claiming that Jon had been conceived before he married Catelyn, clearing him of adultery. For whatever reason — and I think it has a lot to do with #2 — Robb is officially, actually or not, the oldest of Ned's kids.

[Hangover of the Morning]

So did Ned just pick a random date for Jon's name day?

[the conquoring bastard25]

it's possible. IF you don't want to draw attention to the fact that he may have been born on the day that Rheagar died. (a month give or take from when Rheagar fell and when Ned shows up at the Tower). So if your trying to don't draw attention to a day that many will remember you change the boy's birthday.

[Maester Crypt]

Robb is conceived on the wedding night which occurs after the Battle of the Bells.

Rhaegar returns to Kings Landing after the Battle of the Bells from the south to plead with Aerys to ask Tywin for help and lead the kings army to war, Battle of the Trident.

Safe to assume Lyanna was pregnant before he returned to Kings Landing. Therefore they are either extremely close in age or Jon is a month or two older.

Catelyn would naturally think Robb is older because she believes Jon was conceived after their marriage when Ned was off at war. Ned for obvious reasons would not discredit that belief.

[Mrs_Darcy]

Yes, Robb was conceived just after Ned and Cat's wedding. But from yearthat point till the end of the war (when Ned found Lyanna dying at the TOJ) it took about a year, maybe more. So if L+R had already conceived Jon when N+C conceived Robb, then Jon would have been several months old when Ned reached the TOJ. And it wouldn't make sense for Lyanna to be dying in a bed full of blood several months after giving birth. She had to have died a few days or at most a few weeks after the birth, if birth complications were the cause of death (and that seems indeed the most plausible cause of death). Therefore, if R+L=J, then Jon is a few months younger than Robb.

Like said before, the war did not last more than a year, but a bit less, probably about 11 months, Jon was born around the end of the war (Sack of King's Landing or up to one month later) and Robb Stark was conceived after his parents married (which was a few months into the war).

According to the wiki entry for Eddard Stark, the order of events of Robert's Rebellion goes as follows:

• Jon Arryn raises his banners (start of the Rebellion)

Ned (at that time in the Eyrie) has to travel back to Winterfell to call his banners and move his troops south

Since the Graftons are loyal to the crown, he cannot go by ship from Gulltown, but has to cross the mountains of the Fingers and hire a fishing boat to take him to White Harbour

After being shipwrecked and kept at the Three Sisters (we do not know, how long he was kept there) he has to call his banners, wait for his bannermen to arrive and then take the whole army south

The sum of all these things could easily take him more than a few months, so that Jon would actually be older than Robb

[the conquoring bastard25]

Not disputing u just adding on, if Jon was born 8 months after the fall of KL,then he was born around the time that Rheagar fell on Trident.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Not disputing u just adding on, if Jon was born 8 months after the fall of KL,then he was born around the time that Rheagar fell on Trident.

It was Dany who was born 8-9 months after the Sack, not Jon. Jon was born at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after, based on the timeline given by GRRM (Dany was born 9 months later and Jon is 8-9 months older than she is).

[the conquoring bastard25]

Dany was born nine month after the sack of the city. She was born 8-9 months after Jon. So if it's 9 then he was born when KL fell, if it's 8 then when Rheagar died. Where are you getting a month after the fall?

The quote Dany 9mons after KL falls

Jon was born 8-9 months before that. So how could he have been born after the fall? That would make his birth 9-10 before that fall of the city.

[Arya Targaryen]

Dany was born nine month after the sack of the city. She was born 8-9 months after Jon. So if it's 9 then he was born when KL fell, if it's 8 then when Rheagar died. Where are you getting a month after the fall?

The quote Dany 9mons after KL falls

Jon was born 8-9 months before that. So how could he have been born after the fall? That would make his birth 9-10 before that fall of the city.

Some maths:

KL falls. 1 month later Jon is born. 8 months later Dany is born. That makes: Dany is born 1+8=9 months after KL falls. So Jon could have been born 1 month after the Sack.

[Arya Targaryen]

That was my initial question: who (in the books) claims Robb is older? Do you have a quote?

As far as I can remember, the books don't mention who is older, because it doesn't really matter as long as Jon is a bastard. That's why I was so intrigued when I saw that several Wiki pages stated as fact that Robb was older than Jon.

There is no exact quote, just the fact (as mentioned above) that Ned claims (and Cat believes) that Jon was conceived after they got married and Ned left Cat at Riverrun and went off to war. And by that time Cat was already pregnant. That would make Robb either of the same age, or slightly older than Jon (if neither of them was born very early).

[joluoto2]

Since you clearly can see age difference on small children even by a few months considering how fast they grow, I think we can clearly assume that Robb is older than Jon.