Straczynski/Wachowski Sense8 on Netflix

[karaddin]

The very first scene describes the screaming of pain as being part of giving birth, so yes that is why it starts happening now. That mechanism on the other hand is a complete mystery.

[Myrddin]

 

Yeah, the Nairobi drugs, Kala and her fiance's company, and the drugs Benjen Stark's being peddling all seem to be the same thing as far as I can tell. Not sure if Sun's company are involved in drug development but I could throw them in too. If Chicago's gangs are selling the drugs that could be another angle.

 

Wolfgang's story suddenly got a lot more interesting with episode 7!

It was nice to finally get confirmation of Benjen's fate. Drug dealer in an alternate universe wasn't my choice of the fan theories, but upon re-reading Game of Thrones, all the clues are left there in wonderfully cryptic layers.

 

However, the drugs don't come from the Indian drug company but from a former-chemistry teacher's mobile meth lab in New Mexico. Benjen transports these blue drugs back to his own dimension, but a time warp sends them back in time where their impact on Westeros becomes readily apparent as the cause of the Others White Walkers' longevity and zombie creation powers.

 

Which will in turn feed back into this world again as we learn this show is the prequel to the Walking Dead, when refugee Walkers fleeing the new Targaryan Queen and her blue-eyed Stark Consort land in the United States to start a new plague.

 

It's like the Pixar films. They're all connected....

[red snow]

It was nice to finally get confirmation of Benjen's fate. Drug dealer in an alternate universe wasn't my choice of the fan theories, but upon re-reading Game of Thrones, all the clues are left there in wonderfully cryptic layers.

 

However, the drugs don't come from the Indian drug company but from a former-chemistry teacher's mobile meth lab in New Mexico. Benjen transports these blue drugs back to his own dimension, but a time warp sends them back in time where their impact on Westeros becomes readily apparent as the cause of the Others White Walkers' longevity and zombie creation powers.

 

Which will in turn feed back into this world again as we learn this show is the prequel to the Walking Dead, when refugee Walkers fleeing the new Targaryan Queen and her blue-eyed Stark Consort land in the United States to start a new plague.

 

It's like the Pixar films. They're all connected....

 

That's probably as close to a TV version of "the dark tower" as we'll ever get.

I love the idea of the White Walkers - although I think we should go all in and call them Walter White Walkers :)

 

A friend at work had an interesting idea regarding the drugs and Whispers [spoiler] What if the drug is some kind of sensate enzyme that is harvested and used by humans to simulate the sensate abilities? That means there may be humans who have the ability but need a constant supply? I can see this being something humans (or "them") would want to harness. Is Whispers even a genuine sense8? (I think he is). [/spoiler]

[Myrddin]

A friend at work had an interesting idea regarding the drugs and Whispers [spoiler] What if the drug is some kind of sensate enzyme that is harvested and used by humans to simulate the sensate abilities? That means there may be humans who have the ability but need a constant supply? I can see this being something humans (or "them") would want to harness. Is Whispers even a genuine sense8? (I think he is). [/spoiler]

Your friend's theory reminds me of Jupiter Ascending.

[red snow]

Your friend's theory reminds me of Jupiter Ascending.

 

Oh God, I hope Sense8 isn't set in the same universe! It's not impossible given the wachowskis like to recycle their ideas.

[Myrddin]

 

Oh God, I hope Sense8 isn't set in the same universe! It's not impossible given the wachowskis like to recycle their ideas.

Not the same universe (though, as illustrated above, I could concoct a rationale ;) ), but if the theory is true, it's certainly a similar idea spun a different way.

[Seventh Pup]

My theory for Whispers

[spoiler] I don't think the current Whispers is the original Whispers. I think we will find out that Whispers has harnessed some kind of immortality, where he jumps from host to host. [/spoiler]

[red snow]

Not the same universe (though, as illustrated above, I could concoct a rationale ;) ), but if the theory is true, it's certainly a similar idea spun a different way.

 

Cloud Atlas proves they can spin the same concept in a different way too. So there may well be some mileage in my colleague's idea (funny considering his hatred of Jupiter Ascending)

 

 

My theory for Whispers

[spoiler] I don't think the current Whispers is the original Whispers. I think we will find out that Whispers has harnessed some kind of immortality, where he jumps from host to host. [/spoiler]

 

[spoiler] ooh, I like that one. I wonder if Whisper even looks like the Whispers we are seeing? That could be his actual appearance but the body itself could be whoever he is using at a given time? We saw this with the guy he possessed, Could it be he collects "spares" ? I'm trying to recall if Amanita saw him? It'd be interesting to see what her description of him is. [/spoiler]

 

In terms of season 2 I wonder how they'll handle it? It could be a balancing act between continuing charcter's personal dramas and advancing the overall story. I'm fine with the latter but I can see how it could potentially drive away people who enjoy the human element of the show. [spoiler] To me it seems like Sun, Leto, Kala and Capheus are the ones who have mileage in their "human" stories while the others seem to be already caught up in the big story. I guess they could always involve other sensates either by having an additional member(s) of the cluster or by introducing another cluster. I'd be cool with getting some background on the old icelandic sensate and Jonas' clusters [/spoiler]

[The Fallen]

Do you guys think Jonas, [spoiler]because of what happened to Daryl Hannah, has reformed and is thus helping the new sensates?[/spoiler]

[red snow]

Do you guys think Jonas, [spoiler]because of what happened to Daryl Hannah, has reformed and is thus helping the new sensates?[/spoiler]

 

[spoiler] I get the feeling he was already on the path to "helping" but it seems he's a very grey character and possibly has an agenda of his own [/spoiler]

 

I found this site with some useful tips on the rules of the show from JMS. He says clusters can be anywhere between 2-12. I'm more convinced than ever there's another member of the cluster the show is based around.

[Kyoshi]

I want to do away with the spoiler tags. We should probably ask the OP to indicate it in the thread title.

 

Finished and I thought it was great. Just really different from a lot of other shows and I really like the sense of optimism/humanity throughout - even if the characters are put through the ringer.

Maybe we need a spoiler thread for discussing the season as a whole?

 

SNIP

 

I tried imagining a Sense6, as some have suggested should have been the case if a more coherent story were to be told, but couldn't. Removing even one of them drastically changes someone else's story, motivations, and just the whole plot. Even removing Kala, who some feel has the weakest arc, changes a lot of things. [I liked her arc quite a lot and thought it was appropriately subtle (more on that below)].

 

My spectrum would look something like this: [spoiler]From lightest to darkest: Kala-Capheus-Lito-Will-Nomi-Riley-Sun-Wolfgang.[/spoiler]

 

There were a few one-on-one interactions we didn't get to see (not moments when one character takes over in order to help): [spoiler]Lito/Kala, Kala/Nomi, Nomi/Wolfgang, Nomi/Sun, Wolfgang/Capheus, Wolfgang/Sun, Wolfgang/Nomi, Wolfgang/Riley, Capheus/Lito, Capheus/Nomi, Capheus/Will and Lito/Riley. Wolfgang and Kala have had more interactions with one another than anyone else, so have Riley and Will, and both are romantic. Also, Wolfgang and Kala have each had the least interaction with everyone else. Wolfgang is closed off so it makes sense that he would be the least sociable of the group. With Kala the answer comes less easily. Lito also has a low number of interactions; he's closeted and spends his life lying, it made sense that he would interact the least, at least that's what I told myself.

 

With regard to Kala-Wolfgang and Will-Riley, I can sort of understand why Yrsa said romance within a cluster is narcissistic (I wonder if orgies fall into this category). So far, it seems to have separated Kala and Wolfgang from the rest of the group. It will be interesting to see how this shapes the group dynamics in further seasons.[/spoiler]

 

Furthermore, the interactions we do get, seem to be based more on need more than anything. [spoiler]Because Wolfgang is emotionally stunted, when Felix is wounded, it is Karla who feels the pain and cries. She also seems to have felt every moment he had sex (since Daryl Hannah killed herself). When Wolfgang needs to lie to his cousin, it is Lito who shows up. And when they all need untamed courage [when Will drove into the fog, when Kala was about to get married and when Lito was beating up Scumbag #1], Wolfgang shows up. But when they need brute strength, Sun shows up. She could have easily shown up for Lito, but that wasn't what he needed in that moment. Interestingly, Sun personifies courage in her own setting, with her brother and father being cowards. But in the cluster, someone else assumes that role more easily. I couldn't place Nomi and Will on this every-sensate-represents-a-virtue scale I've created, and that's why during the re-watch, I was interested in their arcs the least. What they bring to the group exists outside of them. That is, they are surrounded by interesting people and interesting stuff happens to and around them, but they are not particularly interesting.

 

Nomi can hack, and she was almost lobotomised, but the character herself doesn't really grow in the span of the season. Will falls in love and does some daring stuff, but I already expected daring to be within the trait range of a police officer. Jonas makes them more interesting, their advanced knowledge makes them interesting, Amanita and Sarah Patrell make them more interesting, etc. Each of the other sensates on the other hand, goes through his/her own Hero's Journey, with Capheus, Lito and Wolfgang's being the most obvious. Will and Nomi remain the same people they were in Episode 1.[/spoiler]

 

On Kala: I can understand why some people feel Kala's story is the weakest. There simply isn't enough, if any action in it. More importantly,[spoiler]she is never actually threatened. Yeah sure, she is getting married to a guy she doesn't love. What's more, he's a nice guy. She is also the only sensate who currently has both parents who absolutely adore her. On the surface, her problem doesn't compare to a lobotomy, gangs and crime wars, a constant threat to one's life, a lifetime of rejection that's capped off by wrongful imprisonment, and all the other threats faced by the other sensates. Unlike the others, we are never afraid for Kala.

 

Putting all that aside, Kala is a girl marrying a powerful man because the notion seemingly made her parents happier than her graduation. She may have even thought she would eventually fall in love with Rajan. Before that even got a fair chance, Daryl Hannah kills herself and Wolfgang enters her life, further complicating an already messed up situation. This also magnifies Kala's trepidation and confusion. In one scene she tells Ganesha that she doesn't understand the signs he's been sending her lately i.e. the woman who killed herself and the man with the large junk. Also notice that Kala is the only sensate in whom religion and science collide rather significantly. When she can't explain things or when she needs help, she looks to her God, and in her daily life she is a scientist. That suggests to me, that of the presented characters, and with her beliefs always highlighted, that she is someone who always seeks answers outside herself. And what does she get...Rajan's father tells her to take option 1 in a narrow array of choices:

 

1. possibly disappoint her loving parents and breaking her fiance's heart by stopping the wedding,

2. or going ahead with the wedding. This, with the risk of long-term unhappiness and further confusion.

 

In each case, it will be a selfish choice and someone ends up screwed in one way or another. And Rajan's father gets stabbed while she watches. It is later revealed that the assailants revered her because she brought him where they could reach him. Shit keeps happening.

 

Her story also had strong meta-ish and philosophical vibes that also subtly connected her to the others. In one scene she asks her father what she should do about the information of Rajan's father's disapproval. He tells her several things and concludes by saying this (paraphrased): "Not telling him will start this relationship with dishonesty. Telling him gives the father more power. But if you tell Rajan and his father dies, then you give the father more power over his son than he possibly ever had while he lived. But tell him and let the chips fall where they may." Sun's current circumstances parallel this quite a lot.

 

Of course, she tells Rajan and even more stuff goes wrong. I can't really remember what happened afterwards but she then acknowledges her feelings for Wolfgang, and then sees him killing a man...only moments after she had saved him. This took me back to Will's hospital scene where the nurse asked him (paraphrased): "How will you feel if this boy goes on to kill someone?" I've also just convinced myself I need a third watch.

 

Anyway, IIRC, it's only after Wolfgang's story picks up that Kala starts interacting significantly with the others.[/spoiler]Maybe I'm alone, but I found all this stuff to be absolutely compelling. And I was definitely more interested in her than I was in Will and Nomi.

 

I have a question about Jonas. [spoiler]1. He talks to Will about the "father" of his cluster.

2. Yrsa tells Riley that Jonas and Angelica used to birth clusters and then use them to hunt other sensates. This would make Jonas the "father" of those clusters, and seemingly, the father figure of his own cluster.

 

3. My confusion comes here: was Jonas's "father" in the same cluster as him, or was he in another cluster that birthed Jonas?[/spoiler] I guess I'm just trying to figure out how it all works. Can sensates become aware without the birthing process (because Will seems to have been aware even as a child)? It seems to me that Daryl Hannah killing herself is not what awakened the sensates, she did it to protect them. Which suggests that the "mother" of a cluster can lead a hunter to her "children." Yrsa also says to Riley (paraphrased): "I know who birthed you!" *horrified font* What seems to have awakened them is the birthing, where Daryl Hannah appeared to all of them at once. I got a headache just typing that.

 

After a re-watch I noticed some things I had taken for granted on my first watch:

1. Jonas only interacts with the American sensates because those are the only ones he made eye contact with.

2. The same is true with Yrsa and Riley.

3. Everyone except Nomi and Lito gets a flashback to their childhood. That is, we never see Nomi as a boy and Lito before he admits he is gay (maybe). I wonder if this means something.

4. The sensates seem prone to fainting spells.

 

While on the subject of childhoods: [spoiler]How is it that Will was able to communicate with Sarah Patrell? I don't think I fully understand what's happening there.

 

The sensates also have some tragic beginnings. Capheus lost his father and later his sister, Sun her mother, Wolfgang killed his own father, Nomi has the locker incident, Riley was told she has a hex.[/spoiler]

[red snow]

Excellent post. I'll try and respond more in depth later

 

3. Everyone except Nomi and Lito gets a flashback to their childhood. That is, we never see Nomi as a boy and Lito before he admits he is gay (maybe). I wonder if this means something.

 

[spoiler] Didn't we see Nomi being scolded in the showers as a young boy? We don't see anything RE Lito though. I like your idea about him not interacting because he's so secretive about his nature [/spoiler]

[Kyoshi]

She tells us, we don't see it as far as I recall. EDIT: Further proof I need another watch.

[red snow]

She tells us, we don't see it as far as I recall. EDIT: Further proof I need another watch.

 

We certainly do see it during the flashback - it's pretty harsh.

 

Another colleague had another really cool idea which may have been discussed much earlier in the thread. [spoiler] Sarah Petrell (the girl who went missing) was the 9th member of their cluster. It's obvious to the point I'm wondering why i missed it? Although I'm not sure if it breaks the rules of them being connected prior to their "birthing". I guess the eye contact my over-ride it? [/spoiler]

 

EDIT: The show is proving to be almost GOT popular in the workplace.

[Kyoshi]

^^you're right. I remember it now. I actually looked away when that happened.

[red snow]

^^you're right. I remember it now. I actually looked away when that happened.

 

I guess, technically, you never saw scenes from her childhood :)

[Kalbear]

On Kala - my personal view is that she's  the weakest story because she has had the least interaction and help from the group. She's helped out a couple times, but no one has really helped her. Probably because she's not needed anything yet. I like her family and friends, and I love seeing her area - but she's just not gotten a lot of meat yet in the storyline. 

 

Man, I feel like I should rewatch it. Especially those early eps, where there was a lot going on that I likely missed. 

[red snow]

On Kala - my personal view is that she's  the weakest story because she has had the least interaction and help from the group. She's helped out a couple times, but no one has really helped her. Probably because she's not needed anything yet. I like her family and friends, and I love seeing her area - but she's just not gotten a lot of meat yet in the storyline. 

 

Man, I feel like I should rewatch it. Especially those early eps, where there was a lot going on that I likely missed. 

 

I've only just finished and I feel like a rewatch. I will be strong and wait until the next season is greenlit. It's funny how people thought the early episodes didn't have much happening but in hindsight you realise there probably are interesting elements in there.

[Kyoshi]

The first few episodes have very interesting stuff. In Episode 3, Will has a memory/dream in which he sees[spoiler]a man cutting up what I assume is Sarah's brain. She says to him, "Don't look at him, that's how he found me."

Red Snow,

I really like the idea of Sarah being the ninth member of the cluster.[/spoiler]

I have more to say on the interactions. More on that later.

EDIT: Lito's movies seem horribly awesome. I mean, one of them is titled EVEN ANGELS HAVE TO EARN THEIR WINGS. And the nuns carry guns in their sexy stalkings. Everyone carries a gun to a funeral. There was one with a Mexican standoff, Lito was kissing the girl while everyone else was potting a gun at him. Wish I could find the picture.

[red snow]

The first few episodes have very interesting stuff. In Episode 3, Will has a memory/dream in which he sees[spoiler]a man cutting up what I assume is Sarah's brain. She says to him, "Don't look at him, that's how he found me."

Red Snow,

I really like the idea of Sarah being the ninth member of the cluster.[/spoiler]

I have more to say on the interactions. More on that later.

EDIT: Lito's movies seem horribly awesome. I mean, one of them is titled EVEN ANGELS HAVE TO EARN THEIR WING. And the nuns carry guns in their sexy stalkings. Everyone carries a gun to a funeral. There was one with a Mexican standoff, Lito was kissing the girl while everyone else was potting a gun at him. Wish I could find the picture.

 

[spoiler] When the guy mentioned the labotomy scene, I was hooked on the idea she's the ninth member. I think, for some reason, I just thought the kid in those scenes was Riley. It's clearly Sarah though. Although now I'm kind of side she's been turned into a vegetable and a possible spare part for Whispers. Or has she? I'm wondering if the sensates ever really die while there's a member of their cluster left? The "mother" keeps turning up at various times after her death (I recall the scene with Sun). Does this mean that Sarah's consciouness is still hanging around in Will's brain? So we may get her as a "ghost" unless there's some way of giving her back to her body in future. Regardless of that speculation it provides a neat explamation for how Will could do sense8 stuff before he was birthed by merit of him being lucky enough to make eye contact with one of his cluster. This also goes a long way to justifying why Will seems to be the one using the power willingly while the others tend to do so on an unconscious level.[/spoiler]

 

I'd happily watch some webisodes of Leto's films - they looked super awesome.

 

Kyoshi - I like your idea on interactions being based on need. [spoiler] In a way it explains why Kala and Wolfgang have the least chats with other members with the exception of each other. As you said Wolfgang needs Kala to deal with emotional issues. [/spoiler]

 

With regards to a spectrum. [spoiler] I think Nomi and Will are the most "balanced" of the group in terms of not having extreme emotional qualities. It's maybe what makes them less interesting as individuals and good targets for plot? It may also make them the "leaders" of the group too? [/spoiler]