Ragnarok: this theory puts all other theories to shame

[Daendrew]

What is Ragnarök? It is, quite literally, the song of ice and fire with an important update here

His other blogs are quite good too. This guy I think is on the mark. He is directionally accurate at least (meaning > 51% right, not necessarily 100%), GRRM may have twists and turns to add to the story though. My point is that the archetypes found in Ragnarok/other myths, not necessarily this authors interpretation are key to the unfolding of the story.

There is a reason ASoIF is so addictive and cultish. It is because it is a re-adaptation of a religion that has spoken to and connected with millions of people.

The others may be a weapon. Just as dragons are a weapon of the Targaryens.

It may be the Children using the Others as their weapon. The army of ravens led the Other to find Sam who had the Craster baby. Those were bloodravens ravens and they were none too happy once he killed the Other.

"What is Ragnarök? It is, quite literally, the song of ice and fire. But what is a song? Is a song a battle? Do notes fight one another for dominance, with no care or concern for the overall sound? No. That is discord. A song is harmony -- notes working together in unison. And that is Ragnarök -- the forces of ice & fire uniting as one to attack the world of gods and men. And that is key to understanding what's really going on in George R. R. Martin's epic fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire... The battle is not Dragons vs. White Walkers. It's Dragons & White Walkers vs. Mankind."

Read this blog for more on the Children, Facelessmen and the prophesy ruse. The Chiildren could not win over men with brawn, so they decided to play the long game and use cunning and intrigue instead.

This lightly altered quote from the blog gave me chills.

"Winter Is coming to make the Night Dark full of terrors so all men must die."

The Children could not defeat the men with brawn, so this author posits that they are using brains; selective misinformation to sabotage humanity and take their revenge.

This interpretation leads to some shocking conclusions. Like Tommen being the prince that was promised and Egg reborn and Jamie being a huge hero. An interesting spin on things when we are surrounded by Jon and Dany theories..

[The Human Abstract]

The Norse connection has been mentioned many times. There are many clear influences there, but the story already deviates from so many key points I don't see how we can get meaningful predictions out of it.

[yolkboy]

Ok, so Grrm has clearly taken some influence from Ragnorak, as he has with lots of famous mythology. But the shoehorning of grrms entire story in the Ragnorak mould as the post suggest is completely unconvincing to me.

The conclusions the poster reaches are bizarre to say the least, and that's because he uses faulty methodology throughout. A lot of it is shoehorned so hard, it makes little sense. example...

Jormungandr is supposedly so massive, he can circle the world and swallow his tail, which is represented by Quaithe's prophecy to Daenerys -- "to go West, you must go East, etc".

So Quaithe's prophesy equates to a dragon that can circle the world? I guess it does if you want it to.

And Tommen being tptwp? I can't even begin here because the reasoning is so imaginative.

I prefer to read and interpret the text, than imagine this work as a giant like-for-like Ragnorak parallel, which clearly it isn't.

This is the same author that has Jaime pinned for Azor Ahai because there was some ham in the background of a HBO scene, right?

[Neilos]

I'll keep updating my thoughts as I read through this, but there are a few things that aren't gelling with me so far. Most of the connections he's making seem to be thematic (hammers connect Thor to Robert; Horns connect Sam to Heimdallr, etc), but for many of them, the differences are too stark for me to believe them connected.

Take Loki and Bloodraven, for example, whom the author believes to be connected due to Loki's shapeshifting abilities and demonised nature. I don't see it, as Bloodraven seems to me to be a driven man with strong convictions. Loki was the opposite for most of his life. Bloodraven does not do what he does for fun. If anything, Loki would be Littlefinger.

There's Freyr and Lord Frey, as well. There was nothing to suggest connivance, or cowardice, or cruelty in the god Freyr's nature. Connecting the two on the basis of male virility seems quite weak when the two characters are nothing alike.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Interesting, certainly, but I'm unconvinced.

[Daendrew]

Hodor is the Norse god of Winter too

[ladytiger]

GRRM definitely used Ragnarok as one of his inspirations but it's not the end-all, be-all source either. He likes taking various mythologies and tropes and putting his on twist on them.

[Mladen]

This interpretation leads to some shocking conclusions. Like Tommen being the prince that was promised and Egg reborn.

"The theory that puts all other to shame" concludes with Tommen being PTWP and Egg reborn? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Thank you so much... I needed this...

[Northbound2.0]

While that was an interesting read and of course Martin has used those stories for a source of inspiration; the theories are far off IMO. For instances saying Jon Snow's major battle and task is to just take out Walder Frey; is the furthest thing, from what is shaping up.

[Daendrew]

But Lyanna made Ned promise to keep Jon a secret. I think that is the PTWP.

[Daendrew]

"The theory that puts all other to shame" concludes with Tommen being PTWP and Egg reborn? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Thank you so much... I needed this...

Not sure I believe it, the archetypes may be someone else/shared/modified.

It would be pretty shocking for Tommen to be that. But everything points to him being a decent kind King.

[Daendrew]

Tommen is going against deep pocketed Big Beet though. Good luck to him.

[Frey family reunion]

The characters I would most closely associate with Loki are Mance Rayder and Petyr Baelish. Mance was raised amongst his people's enemies ( like Loki ) while Baelish to a lesser extent ( a poor lord growing up amongst his wealthier brethren) but is at least more obviously a trickster character.

Bloodraven IMO more closely resembles Odin esp. with his connection to the Ravens and the idea that he sees and knows everything that happens in the realms. Odin was also a skinchanger who often went amongst the commonfolk in disguise.

I do think that there is an allusion to the Ragnorak myths, but as the posters above have stated these are not the only mythos that are being referenced.

Without reading the above link (even though I think I read it in the past) here are some of the links I found with the series and the Norse apocalypse:

1. The red comet could be an allusion to the red roosters whose crowing announces the start of the Ragnorak war throughout the Nine Worlds.

2. Bran may fit the Fenris wolf. Just as Bran was put into a near death state by Jaime, the warrior, the Fenris Wolf was imprisoned in the underworld by the Norse god of War Tyr. Jaime ultimately loses his hand because of the chain of events he sets in motion by pushing Bran out the window, while Tyr more directly loses his hand from the Fenris wolf in the process of imprisoning it. Just like the Fenris wolf escapes his literal chains, Bran escapes his figurative chains as he learns how to control his skinchanging ability.

3. Stannis and his red witch, Melisandre could represent Surtr and his flaming sword, or Dany and her dragons could fit the bill as well. Dany as an invader into Westeros may fit the part more easily, however.

4. Drago's funeral pyre has certain similarities to Baldr's funeral pyre as well. In addition, while Baldr's funeral heralds the beginning of Ragnorak, Drago's funeral results in the reemergence of dragons.

5. While this may be stretching it a tad, I noticed serpent imagery has been used abundantly in reference to the Iron Islands, Dorne, Qarth, and some of the free cities. While not a literal serpent, this collection of threats does seem to surround the land of Westeros.

6. Several battles also seem to reflect Thor's battles against the Jormungandr (the serpent) . Robert's battle against Rhaegar, where Robert is victorious but the Targaryen threat lives on across the sea, may be a subtle reference to Thor's early battle against the Jormungandr where he almost defeats the serpent but before he can land the killing blow, the serpent is allowed to escape back into the sea. Thor's final battle against Jormungandr ends with Thor crushing the serpent's head but Thor subsequently dies from the poison he took on during the battle. Likewise we have Gregor's battle against Oberyn where Gregor crushes the Red Viper's skull but is (apparently) mortally wounded from the poisoned spear.

5.

[Crimson King]

The guy predicts Arya is murdered in her sleep, in Braavos. Okayy..

Anyways, even though I think there are a lot of interesting things in his theory, I think he tries too hard too make Norse mythology fit his theory, and some of the conclusions are just out there. I am of the opinion that exterior literature should always be used with care in theories, and never be the whole thing. Theories should be able to stand within the source text, and this one relies way too heavily on what is only one of asoiaf's many inspirations.

That being said, I think there are a lot of great ideas in his posts. The problem, again, is that he tries too hard to make it all fit within one unified homogenous theory.

[Daendrew]

While that was an interesting read and of course Martin has used those stories for a source of inspiration; the theories are far off IMO. For instances saying Jon Snow's major battle and task is to just take out Walder Frey; is the furthest thing, from what is shaping up.

That's if you strictly follow the story, my point is that these are the most important archetypes in the story. Need not be literal. Jon can kill Frey but that doesn't mean it is the end of his arc as it was in Ragnarok.

[Mladen]

Not sure I believe it, the archetypes may be someone else/shared/modified.

It would be pretty shocking for Tommen to be that. But everything points to him being a decent kind King.

If someone thinks that this is a story where archetypes are transferred to a letter, then someone is not paying attention...

[Illusion]

Interesting reading but too flawed.

For instance, Tommens great love is stamping his seal on things and playing with his kittens. Can't see him squaring up to the WW's as AAR.

[Daendrew]

The aha moment for me from the blog was when he talks about "the red star bleeding" which everyone interprets to be the comet and not the Martell/Karstark sigil both of whose leaders bleed/die.

[Daendrew]

"The theory that puts all other to shame" concludes with Tommen being PTWP and Egg reborn? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Thank you so much... I needed this...

Tommen is pure Targaryen an a descendant of Egg if Joanna was raped/seduced by Aerys and Jamie and Cersei are both Targs. Thus Cerseis/Joffreys madness and the instinctual twincest.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Makes some interesting points, but I agree with yolkboy. It's too forced and GRRM does not do one to one parallels like this. He uses elements of many world mythologies, including Norse, Celtic and Greek, as well as Arthurian legend and British history.

Also I agree with Frey Family Reunion-- Littlefinger is clearly the trickster Loki while Bloodraven can only be one-eyed Odin, the all-father and skinchanger who is strongly associated with ravens.