Unrealistic Battle Sequences

[TheNinjaDC]

I always took it that the POV influences the perception of battles.

I don't think Asha's force killed hundreds of Mountain Men in their flight, but to Asha's perspective they did. Mix in some actually great fighters like her close crew & we get a valiant last stand where each iron born cut down 50 wolves.

The more pulled back a POV is from the fight(observing vs fighting), the more accurate in my mind.

[sleath56]

GRRM isn't a military historian and so you shouldn't expect his battles to represent full accuracy either.

He clearly did research and that's what counts.

[yogurtcobain]

Midgets have short long-bones, long-bones are legs and arms, but they have normal torsos and heads. It would be very difficult to swing a sword or an axe with shortened arms, aslo you wouldn't get much momentum. It's unrealistic to think Tyrion could kill any normally armed solidier. That being said it is a fantasy but because its realism is so prelavent this did take me a bit out of the book

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

as long as i don't go "ah come on" during a battle than it's all good to me.

[Kennedy the Keen]

Probably what I like most about aSoIaF is the realistic depictions of violence. The messy, gritty, unromantic fights in which the laws of everyday life apply and no matter how good a swordsman you are, if you get stabbed from behind by some pussy that is the end of you.

So it pisses me off to no end when I re-read aCoK and I find Tyrion at the Battle of the Blackwater mowing down Stannis' men left and right. He's just a midget, for Christ's sake. Where's Stannis' spearmen?

Are there any other silly, immersion-breaking battle sequences in aSoIaF or is it just Tyrion who is occasionally granted superhuman powers? I seem to remember that in aDwD Asha kills a crazy number of northmen at Deepwood Motte, as if they're orcs and the series is The Lord of the Rings.

The Battle of Summerhall, During Roberts Rebellion seems like it might have been a little unrealistic. It is when a young Robert Baratheon defeats 3 Armies in one day. Not only that but he also uses Summerhall as his defensive fortification. I understand the irony of Summerhall being burnt down the day Rhaegar was born, because Robert "Dreams of killing Rhaegar" every day. Yet that's exactly what Summerhall is a burnt down ruins of a summer home. It would difficult for anyone to beat 3 armies while your holding Summerhall, especially in one day!

[Ser Lepus]

The Battle of Summerhall, During Roberts Rebellion seems like it might have been a little unrealistic. It is when a young Robert Baratheon defeats 3 Armies in one day. Not only that but he also uses Summerhall as his defensive fortification. I understand the irony of Summerhall being burnt down the day Rhaegar was born, because Robert "Dreams of killing Rhaegar" every day. Yet that's exactly what Summerhall is a burnt down ruins of a summer home. It would difficult for anyone to beat 3 armies while your holding Summerhall, especially in one day!

The "summer home" of the Targayrens could very well be a castle and walled town.

[Trigger Warning]

He's on horseback fighting disorganised infantry, I didn't find it much of a stretch at all.

.

[Kennedy the Keen]

The "summer home" of the Targayrens could very well be a castle and walled town.

Your right I actual think I remember them referring to it as a palace. I don't know about any walls but it must have had some kind of defensive fortifications at one point. The king and his family did reside there for extended periods of time through out history. But it was just a burnt down remnant of what it used to be.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The Battle of Summerhall, During Roberts Rebellion seems like it might have been a little unrealistic. It is when a young Robert Baratheon defeats 3 Armies in one day. Not only that but he also uses Summerhall as his defensive fortification. I understand the irony of Summerhall being burnt down the day Rhaegar was born, because Robert "Dreams of killing Rhaegar" every day. Yet that's exactly what Summerhall is a burnt down ruins of a summer home. It would difficult for anyone to beat 3 armies while your holding Summerhall, especially in one day!

I always assumed this was an exaggeration of Robert's exploits and that the three armies consisted of just a few men each attempting to gather into a larger host.

[Djinn]

At the Green Fork and Blackwater, Tyrion is riding a horse(he needs a special saddle) and swinging a axe. A person with short arms has a short reach and on top of a horse without a long weapon(spear, longaxe, polearm), it is physically impossible to hit average sized opponents. This is another greatsword/sheath absurdity of fiction. Also at the Green Fork he's wearing a helmet with a foot long spike?! I guess it's not just the Ghiscari who are ridiculous.

[Kurogane]

I always assumed this was an exaggeration of Robert's exploits and that the three armies consisted of just a few men each attempting to gather into a larger host.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_in_detail

[KingOfTheDirewolves]

Tyrion is like Yoda in Attack of the Clones. I'd like to see what he could with a lightsaber.

Seriously, in the confusion of battle involving hand-to-hand combat and with his foes not paying attention to him I really didn't have a problem with the way he fought. He was mostly whacking at people's legs and taking them from behind and such, no?

It's a bit different, Yoda is around 900 years old, and a Jedi Master, and don't forget the Force, Tyrion is in his mid 30's isn't he? He is flanked by 2 Kingsguard, Heavily armored and facing people who most likely have had little to no training in swordsmanship before having their swords forced upon them and are scared out of their wit's by fire on water which is scientifically impossible unless there be oil in dat water.

[Thucydides]

We know that all of the battle sequences are idealized and unrealistic, because there is no mention of the difficult of navigating a battlefield strewn with corpses.

That's pretty much the litmus test in both literature and historical accounts; no mention of the veritable obstacle course created by dead and injured bodies, no realism in the account. (See The Face of Battle, by John Keegan)

[Gneisenau]

Winterfell's weak defence is the unrealistic part. That's why I consider its taking to be something out of the ordinary.

The Scots actually captured some castles with a small force a la Theon Greyjoy.

[Faydra]

The Scots actually captured some castles with a small force a la Theon Greyjoy.

I have no doubt that throughout history small forces captured some castles, but none of them were the residence of a KING.

[Werthead]

I have no doubt that throughout history small forces captured some castles, but none of them were the residence of a KING.

Neither was Winterfell at that moment. Robb wasn't there and Ser Rodrik had drawn off the bulk of the garrison to help retake Torrhen's Square. No-one was expecting Theon to do what he did because, whilst audacious, it was also stupid as he eventually found out.

[toffeejay]

I didn't think Asha's battle in the woods was that unrealistic. Didn't she have, like 50 guys with her, but only 9 survived and surrendered?

The problem with that scene is that the Ironborn stop because its to dark to go on without being lost in the woods. They are then ambushed by Northmen who know the woods (i think). So they should be at a disadvantage yet all though they are defeated and most killed they seem to get the better of the battle and slay three, four times their number.

[Michael Herman]

There were indeed a lot of unrealistic battles in ASoIaF.

Also, people always talk about how much main character Martin kills of, but these battles show us the complete opposite.

Medium and lesser characters are killed off in battles, major characters need a bit more attention.

[DaarioBigalowTyroshiGigolo]

The sacking of Astapor. I mean seriously fire breathing dragons WTF?! How are we meant to believe any of that?!

[Raving Stark the Mad]

and are scared out of their wit's by fire on water which is scientifically impossible unless there be oil in dat water.

There was wildfire in the water. Wildfire is based on greek fire, which was real, and did/does burn on water. While the recipe for greek fire is lost to time, one of the chief ingredients was probably unrefined petroleum.