Reek Da Villain Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 To Jon's Queen Consort: that was then and this is now. What do these Dornishmen know about fighting dragons. There isn't a man alive in Dorne that has seen a dragon, much less has experience fighting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 To Jon's Queen Consort: that was then and this is now. What do these Dornishmen know about fighting dragons. There isn't a man alive in Dorne that has seen a dragon, much less has experience fighting one. I feel like the Dornishmen's inexperience fighting a dragon is probably canceled out by Dany's dragons being substantially smaller than Meraxes. To put them in perspective, we're probably looking at dragons similar to Moondancer and Stormcloud -- just big enough to bear a rider -- and not, say, Syrax, Caraxes or Sunfyre, let alone Vermithor, Silverwing or Vhagar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I just wanted to note that the Dornishmen didn't feared an ancient, powerful, trained and huge Meraxes and not only they didn't feared her but they also killed her along with her rider. I highly doubt they will fear the baby trio. You can mock their size if you wish but Quentyn was sent by Doran to Dany for her and her dragons. The Golden Company wanted them. Stannis wishes he had them. The dragons will be game changers whether you like Dany or not. In which case Robert and the Baratheons are the new dynasty fair and square and Dany should just shut the fuck about her rights, yes? I just want to be clear, because I think there's a weird double standard going on here (not you, necessarily, but in a lot of people). Dany's dragons give her all the rights she needs, but Robert, who also relied on superior military might, was an awful unlawful usurper. Something has to give here. Not really her dragons but her Targaryen claim to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Not really her dragons but her Targaryen claim to the throne. If she's going by Targaryen claim alone, then Aegon comes before her until she can prove he isn't real. If she's going by might-makes-right alone, then Robert won the throne fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 To Jon's Queen Consort: that was then and this is now. What do these Dornishmen know about fighting dragons. There isn't a man alive in Dorne that has seen a dragon, much less has experience fighting one. What Dornishmen back then knew about fighting dragons? They,without knowing how to do it, managed to kill an ancient huge dragon. If you have read TPATQ you will see that the size is very important. ninjaed By AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 You can mock their size if you wish but Quentyn was sent by Doran to Dany for her and her dragons. The Golden Company wanted them. Stannis wishes he had them. The dragons will be game changers whether you like Dany or not. If it's between "no dragons" or "very small dragons," then yeah, people will choose the small dragons. That doesn't mean that they can't be killed more easily or that they're an automatic winning lottery ticket. They were "game changers" in the first Dance too, and just about all of them ended up dead. Including the people who rode them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reek Da Villain Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Robert won the throne, yes. No one will take that throne without conquering it. Rights mean little when you're willing to declare war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 You can mock their size if you wish but Quentyn was sent by Doran to Dany for her and her dragons. The Golden Company wanted them. Stannis wishes he had them. The dragons will be game changers whether you like Dany or not. What I say is that the dragons' size matters a lot especially after what we have seen in TPATQ. The dragon(s) may be a game changer sure, but for which game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Robert won the throne, yes. No one will take that throne without conquering it. Rights mean little when you're willing to declare war. My point, yet again, is that Dany can either accept that her family lost the throne fair and square because of the power of military might that she herself will now use, or that the Targaryen line of succession is legally intact, in which case, Aegon comes first. She can't have it both ways. I suppose she could, but it'd make her a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobmartell Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 More likely Tyrion and Barristan will be educating her on the Blackfyres so her vs the law won't even come up unless Aegon actually had definitive proof he is who he says he is.This. And, what, if any, will that 'proof' be? The word of JC?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tze Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The Yronwood situation is interesting because it looks like Doran's efforts will prevent House Yronwood from going the Frey/Bolton/Reyne route vis a vis their feudal overlords. Quentyn was a second son to Lord Yronwood---Quentyn chose to take knighthood from Lord Yronwood instead of the Red Viper, he called Lord Yronwood his "second father", etc. Doran Martell is viewed as weak, and a rebellion by his most powerful bannerman would ordinarily be in the cards. (Not to mention, House Yronwood is one House who would certainly not have shed any tears over the Red Viper's death.) But where House Yronwood might ordinarily be expected to smell weakness in the Martells and side against them in a war (which is likely why they supported the Blackfyres the first time around), Quentyn's death will likely prevent this in the upcoming Dance. In other words, if Doran hadn't sent Quentyn to foster with the Yronwoods, Dany could land in Westeros and use the Yronwoods against the Martells (if she had any political skills, of course). As the situation now stands, however, that option is off the table. House Yronwood will be just as pissed at Quentyn's death as House Martell (it obviously doesn't matter to the Dornishmen that Dany wasn't at fault there, any more than it mattered to anyone in Dorne that the Lannisters weren't at fault for Oberyn's death), so the Yronwoods will side full-on with the Martells where, if Quentyn had never fostered with them, a schism might otherwise have been possible. The current projection of the storyline has Dany coming to Westeros to battle the Others, not conquer the 7K. No, it really doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 This. And, what, if any, will that 'proof' be? The word of JC?? I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I do think Aegon is a fake. I'm also someone who thinks Varys's powers are grossly overestimated by most people. Having said that, there will almost certainly be some retconned "proof" that Aegon is who they claim he is. These are careful people. They're not going to risk a lifelong, high-stakes operation getting blown for lack of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If she's going by Targaryen claim alone, then Aegon comes before her until she can prove he isn't real. If she's going by might-makes-right alone, then Robert won the throne fair and square. She doesn't even know he exists and has reason to believe he's fake. We both know there is a second Dance on the way and if it is between Dany and Aegon, is she really in the wrong? You insist he's fake (and a Blackfyre) and Dany has more evidence than you that he's no true dragon at all. He won the war through with superior forces (how else do you win a throne?) and if he didn't want any contenders he should have killed all the Targaryen heirs. And maybe he should have had some trueborn heirs of his own. If it's between "no dragons" or "very small dragons," then yeah, people will choose the small dragons. That doesn't mean that they can't be killed more easily or that they're an automatic winning lottery ticket. That's the point. No one is saying that her dragons are invincible but having them her gives her an advantage. An advantage others wish they had. No one backed down from Aegon in the beginning and his dragons were much larger than hers. Of course she will be underestimated because her dragons are "small" and people will die as a result. She's not riding into the field on the Geico Gecko, she's on a dragon with a 20-ft wingspan. But JQC would have us believe Drogon will take the field and die within seconds. It's all very stupid. They were "game changers" in the first Dance too, and just about all of them ended up dead. Including the people who rode them. I know, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 My point, yet again, is that Dany can either accept that her family lost the throne fair and square because of the power of military might that she herself will now use, or that the Targaryen line of succession is legally intact, in which case, Aegon comes first. She can't have it both ways. I suppose she could, but it'd make her a hypocrite. You're approaching this from some objective standpoint. People, in real life, and in this story, are not objective. Dany has been raised believing that her brother, and now her, are the rightful heir to the throne, and that Robert was a usurper and that his cronies murdered her family. That's not going to change if somebody else shows up and tries to boss her around. She is very independent. She has been a Queen and ruled for I don't know how long. She's not going to give up that power if somebody demands it from her because they have a better "legal right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 They were "game changers" in the first Dance too, and just about all of them ended up dead. Including the people who rode them. I was under the impression that most of the dragons were killed by other dragons. I don't see Aegon with any dragons. Aegon the conquerer took Westeros with what? How many? With how many allies? What size army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 You're approaching this from some objective standpoint. People, in real life, and in this story, are not objective. Dany has been raised believing that her brother, and now her, are the rightful heir to the throne, and that Robert was a usurper and that his cronies murdered her family. That's not going to change if somebody else shows up and tries to boss her around. She is very independent. She has been a Queen and ruled for I don't know how long. She's not going to give up that power if somebody demands it from her because they have a better "legal right". And if that's what she does, that's her prerogative. It still makes her a flaming hypocrite (no pun intended), which is all I've been saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobmartell Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I do think Aegon is a fake. I'm also someone who thinks Varys's powers are grossly overestimated by most people. Having said that, there will almost certainly be some retconned "proof" that Aegon is who they claim he is. These are careful people. They're not going to risk a lifelong, high-stakes operation getting blown for lack of evidence.Or, the proof is a fist. I never believed the story varys told to Kevan, I don't understand who he was 'telling' it to? The 'reader' or the birds. On topic, hasn't dany proved her hypocrisy time and time again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 But JQC would have us believe Drogon will take the field and die within seconds. It's all very stupid. If I made you believe that I meant that then it seems that I didn't made my point clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I was under the impression that most of the dragons were killed by other dragons. I don't see Aegon with any dragons.Aegon the conquerer took Westeros with what? How many? With how many allies? What size army? You must have glossed over the part where many of the surviving dragons perished in the Dragonpit. It's a good thing that Dany never keeps hers chained in such a way ... oh, right. Heh. In any case, Dany can only ever truly control one dragon; the other two must be considered wildcards. And calling something another Dance of the Dragons seems fallacious if only one side has dragons. Aegon's dragons were also substantially larger than any of Dany's, by magnitudes. Balerion was already, what, well over 100 years old when Aegon invaded. Are you seriously saying that Dany's dragons, the largest of which she can only now ride, and barely, are anywhere close to having the same offensive value of any of Aegon's three? Shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 You must have glossed over the part where many of the surviving dragons perished in the Dragonpit. It's a good thing that Dany never keeps hers chained in such a way ... oh, right. Heh. In any case, Dany can only ever truly control one dragon; the other two must be considered wildcards. And calling something another Dance of the Dragons seems fallacious if only one side has dragons. She's lucky no one ever tried to corner and kill them. Oh, right. Heh. If I made you believe that I meant that then it seems that I didn't made my point clear. That's what you're implying. Maybe not that exact scenario but yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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