Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Does anyone else think Cersei would have turned out far better if she could have married Rhaegar? No. Cersei would have keep incesting with Rhaegar too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRunty Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Cersei. Cersei is a lying, conniving, treacherous, manipulative, sick-minded, prejudice, incestuous, torturous, paranoid bitch. I mean, she's a great character, and yes I do have some minor levels of sympathy for her, and I reading her - but lets not pretend she can even be considered a good person in any way, she is a spiteful and yet pitiful character - not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnape Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 It's a misogynistic patriarchal society that forced her in a position she didn't want to be in, and still does. She is forbidden to be ambitous, to have sex or do what she likes. Didn't stop her from committing the atrocities she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I don't remember most of what I once learnt about medieval diet but I do recall that everybody had bad teeth; for the peasants I think it was rough bread wearing down the enamel and for the rich lack of vegetables and an overly rich diet. I do vividly remember the awful condition of the dentition of skeletons my uni had from an exhumed c.12thC monastry - the mouths were full of caries and abscesses and many teeth had been lost pre-mortem. I can't believe it whenever somebody suggests that Cersei would have been happy with Ned. The absolute best case scenario I can think of is her being as unhappy as Lynesse Hightower was up North. Without the benefit of being queen I don't see her even pretending to be committed to her duties in the marriage, perhaps she would have taken herself back to Casterly Rock and convinced herself she was her father's heir? In any case Ned bringing a bastard home (or Rhaegar naming another woman QoLaB) would have done just as well as Robert saying 'Lyanna' in giving Cersei a justification to hate her husband and not work at the marriage. If there was any mention on this thread of Robert's twins in Lannisport I must have missed it. Littlefinger tells Ned a tale of Cersei having the children killed and selling the children to a passing slaver. Admittedly the source is very suspect but it is significant because it wasn't Varys telling Ned that particular tale. There was a bit of a comparison of Cersei and Tywin a couple of pages back:Cersei murders her own people: the Stokeworths were idiots but loyal to her in public and private. She secretly sent her maid Senelle for torture on suspicion of spying (no trial even if Senelle did do it!) and if we are counting the murder of Melara that was the secret killing of her own friend. So here’s a question: do we think Tywin secretly murdered any of his own people? We obviously don’t have the same insight into his head but I suspect he did not. Acts like sending Gregor to murder riverland peasants or orchestrating the RW are murdrous and dishonourable but were not against people he had responsibility for. The only secret activity any of his children know of is the rape of Tysha. The best example of Tywin allowing his own people to be murdered is condoning Gregor’s actions on his lands – and even those people can in feudal terms be thought of as Gregor’s people not Tywin’s direct responsibility. So here lies a difference between Cersei and Tywin; Cersei is evil with everyone, Tywin is evil to his enemies but (to our knowledge) does not murder those who serve him loyally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hulboy Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Cercie is evil and all the things said about her are true.i did feel a little bad for her walk of shame..Cercie has enemies everywhere and her only chance of surviving is going back to casterly rock. Cercies. Biggest problem is gonna be Tyrion when he arrives with Danny's forces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Cersei. Cersei is a lying, conniving, treacherous, manipulative, sick-minded, prejudice, incestuous, torturous, paranoid bitch. I mean, she's a great character, and yes I do have some minor levels of sympathy for her, and I reading her - but lets not pretend she can even be considered a good person in any way, she is a spiteful and yet pitiful character - not a good one. Cersei is a liar in a world of liars. She is conniving in a world where Littlefingers and Varyses abound. She is treacherous in a world where Tywin Lannister is the epitome of political behavior. She is manipulative in a world where being straight as an arrow can get one's head chopped off. She is sick-minded in a world where all manner of whoring is regularly practiced by males of the upper classes. She is prejudiced in a world where the very system of privilege that justifies all power is institutionalized prejudice. She is incestuous in a world where the royal family that ruled Westeros for 300 years and still inspires most of its stories, legends, and metaphors (even Robb and Jon idolized the 'young Dragon'), made this a regular practice. She is torturous in world where torture is used regularly by many as a tool (and she does not relish it like Ramsay, only uses it as a tool). She is paranoid in a world where prophecy is often believed by even good characters (e.g. Rhaegar), her own destruction is prophesied, and her own son and father have died in rapid succession at the hands of (as far as she and the rest of world knows) at the hands of the very person she believes will destroy her. Does all this excuse her completely? No. But it should not excuse a lot of other characters who seem to come in for less harsher judgments than she does, while she is taken as some sort of exemplar of evil rather than someone whose morality can be located within the allowable spectrum for Westerosi political players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Cersei is a liar in a world of liars. She is a terrible liar and everyone can see through her. She is conniving in a world where Littlefingers and Varyses abound. They acculatey are successful in their ploys and it is because of them she is still alive and poor Ned and Kevan is dead. She is treacherous in a world where Tywin Lannister is the epitome of political behavior. She does things with no political value and has made an enemy of the entire realm. She is manipulative in a world where being straight as an arrow can get one's head chopped off. She believes she is manipulative but in reality she is a tool of others political growth. She is sick-minded in a world where all manner of whoring is regularly practiced by males of the upper classes. You do realized must of the really sick things are demonized be the doer man or woman? Gregor, Ramsay, Joffrey are all hated to extreme. She is prejudiced in a world where the very system of privilege that justifies all power is institutionalized prejudice. One of the name faults of Cersei is that she upjumps men of little note and has a weird idea on who is okay to die and who is not openly. If she actually gave a thought on rank this would not be a problem. She is incestuous in a world where the royal family that ruled Westeros for 300 years and still inspires most of its stories, legends, and metaphors (even Robb and Jon idolized the 'young Dragon'), made this a regular practice. Daeron was actually born of a unincestuous union and did not marry any of his sisters. It was not regular practice. Only full of Targs actually married their siblings and some of those did not even have sex. She is torturous in world where torture is used regularly by many as a tool (and she does not relish it like Ramsay, only uses it as a tool). She tortures random people that serves no enemy. I give Dany sit on her use of torture you am not going to give it to Cersei? Oh everyone in the North including his thinks Ramsay a monster. She is paranoid in a world where prophecy is often believed by even good characters (e.g. Rhaegar), her own destruction is prophesied, and her own son and father have died in rapid succession at the hands of (as far as she and the rest of world knows) at the hands of the very person she believes will destroy her. A lot of people gives Rhaegar sit not thinking straight and not thinking of a good plan. Myself included. Does all this excuse her completely? No. But it should not excuse a lot of other characters who seem to come in for less harsher judgments than she does, while she is taken as some sort of exemplar of evil rather than someone whose morality can be located within the allowable spectrum for Westerosi political players.Everyone you just mentioned is hated in Board for the traits you just mentioned and are hated in Westeros for the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixi Penrose Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 My picture may contradict this, but I'm not a Cercei-fan. That being said, I don't blame her for the way she acted when Ned came to her. To me that was a clearcut case of 'him or me'. Plus she was protecting her children. The incest doesn't bother me either. Had they screwed around and not made babies,I don't find it to be worse than normal infidelity. That's bad enough, but it doesn't make it worse that they're siblings. I'm pretty sure she was a narciccistic nutcase ling before Robert came into the picture,though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandros Megas Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 She didn't actually kill Lady, Ned did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelcan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 She didn't actually kill Lady, Ned did.... Joffrey didn't actually kill Ned either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 [snip] Does all this excuse her completely? No. But it should not excuse a lot of other characters who seem to come in for less harsher judgments than she does, while she is taken as some sort of exemplar of evil rather than someone whose morality can be located within the allowable spectrum for Westerosi political players. Lol I didn't do a very good job of defending her in this thread, but this is exactly how I feel. She's a terrible person, but certainly not the Ultimate Evil that she is often accused of being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 "You evil, vile scheming bitch!" -Queen Margaery Tyrell to Cersei Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandros Megas Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Joffrey didn't actually kill Ned eitherYup, Ned's head was removed in a Payne-ful manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yup, Ned's head was removed in a Payne-ful manner. Hey, Joff was just trying to break the Ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hey, Joff was just trying to break the Ice. Sandor was only there because he didn't want to be Hounded about it. I tried.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hajk: ''but the other guy did it too!'' stopped being a good excuse in grad school. As for her morality, she's rock-bottom, only complete psychopaths who revel in the suffering of others, like Ramsay and Gregor, are below her. Surprise, these people are also widely hated in-universe too. Cercei may not actively enjoy causing pain, but she's absolutely callous, and unlike her father she doesn't have the excuse of doing it mostly out of pragmatism. Let me put it this way: I really don't like Tywin for several reasons, but I can respect him to an extent. The man what skilled at what he did, knew how to keep a cool head most of the time, and dedicated himself to something higher than numero uno. Cercei, however, not only is utterly incompetent in an almost comical manner, she blames it on everyone else and does almost everything for her own selfish gain. I have 0 respect of any kind of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_dresden Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I am surprised and shocked that people actually bring up Lady when discussing Cersei's crimes. That was nothing really. You have people like -Mycah-Falyse-Senelle-Blue Bard-Sansa-Pate-Bran among others who are victims of cruelty by Cersei and a Direwolf is what gets to people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I am surprised and shocked that people actually bring up Lady when discussing Cersei's crimes. That was nothing really. You have people like -Mycah -Falyse -Senelle -Blue Bard -Sansa -Pate -Bran among others who are victims of cruelty by Cersei and a Direwolf is what gets to people? It's because the direwolf belongs to a Stark. If it isn't a Stark it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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