Moments of Foreshadowing 8 [TPatQ spoilers]

[Northern Nomad]

Since Gregor burned his face, Sandor fears fire. He hates Gregor. He fought with Beric who had a fiery sword. GRRM still keeps him alive and I think that is for a reason. The undead seem to be vulnerable to fire. Bran's vision in GoT ties Arya, Sansa, Gregor, Sandor, Jaime, Cersei together in KL.

Does Sandor know this?

[Mithras]

Does Sandor know this?

Mormont's Raven told Jon to burn the wight. I expect Arya learn how to kill UnGregor from Bran.

[Lost Melnibonean]

And so they went, the bells in their hair ringing softly, while Dany settled down with her small band of survivors in the place they named Vaes Tolorro, the city of bones. Day followed night followed day. Women harvested fruit from the gardens of the dead. Men groomed their mounts and mended saddles, stirrups, and shoes. Children wandered the twisty alleys and found old bronze coins and bits of purple glass and stone flagons with handles carved like snakes. One woman was stung by a red scorpion, but hers was the only death. The horses began to put on some flesh. Dany tended Ser Jorahs wound herself, and it began to heal.

Daenerys I, Clash

Theres a reason the George tells us that one woman was stung by a red scorpion, isnt there?

[SerArthurHeath]

I'm sure someone has beaten me to it but this line in aDwD is interesting:

About Aegon/YG- "Youre Young Griff, son of Griff the sellsword, said Tyrion. Or perhaps you are the Warrior in mortal

guise. Let me take a closer look."

Daemon Blackfyre - "Daemon was the Warrior himself that day"

"With ax or lance or flail, he was as good as any knight I ever saw, but withthe sword he was the Warrior himself"

and I think I'm missing another Blackfyre-Warrior quote somewhere too

[ArabellaVidal]

I'm sure someone has beaten me to it but this line in aDwD is interesting:

About Aegon/YG- "Youre Young Griff, son of Griff the sellsword, said Tyrion. Or perhaps you are the Warrior in mortal

guise. Let me take a closer look."

Daemon Blackfyre - "Daemon was the Warrior himself that day"

"With ax or lance or flail, he was as good as any knight I ever saw, but withthe sword he was the Warrior himself"

and I think I'm missing another Blackfyre-Warrior quote somewhere too

Yikes! That's a brilliant find.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm sure someone has beaten me to it but this line in aDwD is interesting:

About Aegon/YG- "Youre Young Griff, son of Griff the sellsword, said Tyrion. Or perhaps you are the Warrior in mortal

guise. Let me take a closer look."

Daemon Blackfyre - "Daemon was the Warrior himself that day"

"With ax or lance or flail, he was as good as any knight I ever saw, but withthe sword he was the Warrior himself"

and I think I'm missing another Blackfyre-Warrior quote somewhere too

Compare the quote about Aegon to this...

"My second wife."

...

"Very beautiful." Ser Jorah lifted his eyes from her shoulder to her face. "The first time I beheld her, I thought she was a goddess come to earth, the Maid herself made flesh. ..."

...

"What did she look like, your Lady Lynesse?"

Ser Jorah smiled sadly. "Why, she looked a bit like you, Daenerys."

Daenerys I, Clash

[Fragile Bird]

Nice! The Maid and the Warrior, joining together....

[Greymoon]

The phrase black ice appears only three times in all the books, and all three times are in ADWD.

Jon III

"Jon Snow turned away. The last light of the sun had begun to fade. He watched the cracks along the Wall go from red to grey to black, from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice."

Jon XII

"Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist."

The Prince of Winterfell (Although there might not be an obvious connection to the first two quotes, I though I should still note it).

"Beyond its confines, a hard white frost gripped Winterfell. The paths were treacherous with black ice, and hoarfrost sparkled in the moonlight on the broken panes of the Glass Gardens. Drifts of dirty snow had piled up against the walls, filling every nook and corner. Some were so high they hid the doors behind them. Under the snow lay grey ash and cinders, and here and there a blackened beam or a pile of bones adorned with scraps of skin and hair. Icicles long as lances hung from the battlements and fringed the towers like an old mans stiff white whiskers. But inside the godswood, the ground remained unfrozen, and steam."

The first description seems to indicate to us that the black ice is in relation to the Wall. Perhaps if Jon is housed in the Wall after his assassination he might be imbued with some of the Wall's magic. Also of note is the fire and ice imagery of the first two quotes.

ETA: Thinking more about this, I think the third quote might indicate that this won't be a necessarily good think for Jon. There might be negative consequences (side effects?). In ASOIAF everything comes with a price, especially magic.

I realize this was posted a long time ago, but IMO, the Jon quotes point to something entirely different.

...from red, to grey to black. Red = Targaryen color to Grey = Stark color to Black = Night's Watch. It's an explicit reference to Jon's identity; and the roles he has taken up...

from streaks of fire; here again we have a Targaryen reference. But also fire = passion; life; love; anger etc. to rivers of black ice; Black, like the NW; it can also be a Targ ref., but I think it likely that from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice, foreshadows a dark turn in Jon's arc post-assassination attempt, especially when black is associated to ice = cold; unmovable; frozen; but also treacherous and slippery (the Wall itself is "treacherous" isn't it? when the wildling's climb it?). (also >> before, Jon had only "streaks of fire," >> occasional bursts of anger, passion etc. but afterwards he has "rivers of black")

Jon was armored in black ice; this for me represents a metaphorical armor. Jon will armor himself in black ice = rise walls around himself; cruel; frozen; unmovable walls. It foreshadows him finally "killing the boy" once and for all, and becoming what he needs to become in order to survive and salvage the North; and that would include going down a slippery slope and breaking his vows...the paths were treacherous with black ice.

Conversely, the burning red blade in Jon's dream could indicate a "burning anger" or thirst for vengeance. it burned red in his fist; the fist seems a strong symbol for power/defiance/anger; at the same time it seems an explicit ref. to Stannis's sword, and to lightbringer. Red and Black are also once again Targaryen colors.

And beneath the snow lay grey ash and cinders; here I see the grey ash as representing the "Stark honor" that has been part of Jon’s identity – but will be put aside (burned to ashes and cinders) after he wakes from his convalescence.

...but like Jon’s own observations about the real Wall of ice, his own walls will have cracks in them >> cracks of red (Targaryen identity) and grey (love of the Stark siblings) and black (vows/loyalty to the NW.)

(thus from red to grey to black, has at least two meanings.)

[Greymoon]

Nice! The Maid and the Warrior, joining together....

Tyene Sand is said to look like the Maid as well.

She rose as they entered, dressed in a clinging gown of pale blue samite with sleeves of Myrish lace that made her look as innocent as the Maid herself. In one hand was a piece of embroidery she had been working on, in the other a pair of golden needles. Her hair was gold as well, and her eyes were deep blue pools . . . and yet somehow they reminded the captain of her father's eyes.

from a Feast for Crows, the Captain of the Guards chapter.

A Mad Maid -- Tyene connection? the Mad Maid, is Malora Hightower, Lysenne's older sister; unmarried. (a septa?)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Tyene Sand is said to look like the Maid as well.

from a Feast for Crows, the Captain of the Guards chapter.

A Mad Maid -- Tyene connection? the Mad Maid, is Malora Hightower, Lysenne's older sister; unmarried. (a septa?) ...

... a soiled septa???

[Greymoon]

... a soiled septa???

Yes that's what I'm wondering...Tyene was born around 277. Oberyn was exiled around 274; first to Oldtown; then to Lys; and Oldtown is the seat of House Hightower; so...Malora Hightower the "Mad Maid" being Tyene's mother; the soiled septa would fit with the timeline and Oberyn's location, IMO.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yes that's what I'm wondering...Tyene was born around 277. Oberyn was exiled around 274; first to Oldtown; then to Lys; and Oldtown is the seat of House Hightower; so...Malora Hightower the "Mad Maid" being Tyene's mother; the soiled septa would fit with the timeline and Oberyn's location, IMO.

What about our other soiled septa, the lady in company with Jon Connington?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100935-is-septa-lemore-malora-hightower/

I've become convinced that Lady Lemore is the Mad Maid.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Yes that's what I'm wondering...Tyene was born around 277. Oberyn was exiled around 274; first to Oldtown; then to Lys; and Oldtown is the seat of House Hightower; so...Malora Hightower the "Mad Maid" being Tyene's mother; the soiled septa would fit with the timeline and Oberyn's location, IMO.

unlikely:

Arianne Martell had crossed the Mander once, when she had gone with three of the Sand Snakes to visit Tyene’s mother

[Greymoon]

Why should it be unlikely for Tyene's mother to be Malora Hightower?

The Mander is a river in the Reach, no? It's closer to Highgarden but not too far from Oldtown -- at least it is in the same geographical region of the 7k. Also Alerie Hightower is married to Mace Tyrell, so a visit to the Tyrells is possible. We know people can move around. The Mad Maid being in Oldtown around 299 (and around the time of Tyene's conception) does not mean she was always in Oldtown. Tyene has golden hair like Lynesse Hightower, and both are described as looking like the Maid herself...

[Lost Melnibonean]

I realize this was posted a long time ago, but IMO, the Jon quotes point to something entirely different.

...from red, to grey to black. Red = Targaryen color to Grey = Stark color to Black = Night's Watch. It's an explicit reference to Jon's identity; and the roles he has taken up...

from streaks of fire; here again we have a Targaryen reference. But also fire = passion; life; love; anger etc. to rivers of black ice; Black, like the NW; it can also be a Targ ref., but I think it likely that from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice, foreshadows a dark turn in Jon's arc post-assassination attempt, especially when black is associated to ice = cold; unmovable; frozen; but also treacherous and slippery (the Wall itself is "treacherous" isn't it? when the wildling's climb it?). (also >> before, Jon had only "streaks of fire," >> occasional bursts of anger, passion etc. but afterwards he has "rivers of black")

Jon was armored in black ice; this for me represents a metaphorical armor. Jon will armor himself in black ice = rise walls around himself; cruel; frozen; unmovable walls. It foreshadows him finally "killing the boy" once and for all, and becoming what he needs to become in order to survive and salvage the North; and that would include going down a slippery slope and breaking his vows...the paths were treacherous with black ice.

Conversely, the burning red blade in Jon's dream could indicate a "burning anger" or thirst for vengeance. it burned red in his fist; the fist seems a strong symbol for power/defiance/anger; at the same time it seems an explicit ref. to Stannis's sword, and to lightbringer. Red and Black are also once again Targaryen colors.

And beneath the snow lay grey ash and cinders; here I see the grey ash as representing the "Stark honor" that has been part of Jons identity but will be put aside (burned to ashes and cinders) after he wakes from his convalescence.

...but like Jons own observations about the real Wall of ice, his own walls will have cracks in them >> cracks of red (Targaryen identity) and grey (love of the Stark siblings) and black (vows/loyalty to the NW.)

(thus from red to grey to black, has at least two meanings.)

Red to grey to black comes up at least one other time...

Three thick walls encircled Qarth, elaborately carved. The outer was red sandstone, thirty feet high and decorated with animals: snakes slithering, kites flying, fish swimming, intermingled with wolves of the red waste and striped zorses and monstrous elephants. The middle wall, forty feet high, was grey granite alive with scenes of war: the clash of sword and shield and spear, arrows in flight, heroes at battle and babes being butchered, pyres of the dead. The innermost wall was fifty feet of black marble, with carvings that made Dany blush until she told herself that she was being a fool.

Daenerys II, Clash

And it should be noted that Sansa [reverses[/] the order...

She threw back the shutters and shivered as gooseprickles rose along her arms. There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

Sansa IV, Storm

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Why should it be unlikely for Tyene's mother to be Malora Hightower?

The Mander is a river in the Reach, no? It's closer to Highgarden but not too far from Oldtown -- at least it is in the same geographical region of the 7k. Also Alerie Hightower is married to Mace Tyrell, so a visit to the Tyrells is possible. We know people can move around. The Mad Maid being in Oldtown around 299 (and around the time of Tyene's conception) does not mean she was always in Oldtown. Tyene has golden hair like Lynesse Hightower, and both are described as looking like the Maid herself...

i meant, not impossible, but unlikely.. by crossing the Mander to visit Tyene´s mother, it is implied that she lives west of that river, while Oldtown is east of the Mander.. Malora Hightower therefore lives east of the Mander.. of course it is possible that she was temporally on the other side for some reason.. its just more unlikely..

[Greymoon]

...The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

Sansa IV, Storm

Gold and crimson could stand for the Lannister colors IMO.....though I wouldn't know what to make of the thousand shades of rose; and the black before that...

It's possible it foreshadows something about Sansa herself, the Lannister bride...But when put together with Jon's from red to grey to black - as you have pointed out, we have >> from red to grey to black, and from black to grey to red.

Basically, it'd be a hint at a (the) cyclical nature of Jon's arc: he goes from Targaryen, to Stark, to NW brother, to Stark again >> to a thousand shades of rose (? ) >> to Targaryen again.

shades of rose and gold and crimson, taken together is a difficult one... shades of rose, if it's not about a Lyanna connection (shades = shadows of the past, rose = the blackened petals for ex.) only brings two houses to mind: the Tyrells (rose sigil) and the Boltons (pink sigil). The Tyrell connection seems stronger because of the juxtaposition of rose and gold, and the Tyrell rose is gold...could the Tyrells be involved in the turn from "grey" to "crimson" (from Stark to Targaryen)?

I think, the rest of the quote might indicate something in that line of thought: ...the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle when there had been two... this could symbolizes the merging of two houses into one (the guess here would be Stark/Targ.) or...and this is the explanation I'd prefer: it foreshadows the unification of the kingdom (two factions thereof); the South (the Tyrells) and North (the Starks) (where the wind = the other warring factions)

Am I reading too much into that? I'm kind of taken with the idea that Magaery will get her crown (and marry Jon for politics, not love.) so I might be slightly biased in my interpretation ;)

ETA: I also suspect that if there is to be a Stark (Jon)/Tyrell (Margaery) marriage/alliance, that Sansa would be the one responsible for it (since she knows much about the Tyrells, and is learning to play the game) so the imagery appearing in her Pov fits rather nicely with that theory...

[Fire Eater]

In 43 AC, his [Maegor's] nephew, Prince Aegon, attempted to win back the throne that by law should have been his

Prince Viserys, had been kept at the Red Keep as the king’s squire, however, and he suffered for her flight. He died after nine days of questioning at the hands of Tyanna of the Tower.

According to WOIAF, Maegor fought the Faith and rode the black dragon Balerion and later fought his nephew Aegon just as Dany will fight the Faith allied with her "nephew" Aegon, and she rides a black dragon who had been described as Balerion come again. Also, Jaehaerys the Conciliator, Maegor's nephew by his older brother, had two brothers: Aegon and Viserys, who predeceased him. By the end of AGoT, there are two Targaryen heirs that predecease Jon, Dany's nephew by her older brother: Aegon and Viserys. Does this hint that Jon's rule will be akin to that of Jaehaerys I, a long, peaceful and prosperous reign?

@ Lost Melnibonean and Greymoon

I think the black to grey to red could be Jon going from NW to Stark to Targaryen.