Moments of Foreshadowing 8 [TPatQ spoilers]

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

Yes, obviously the dragon and griffin are Aegon and JonCon.

I was wondering why a manticore was grouped with them twice. Seems a bit odd if the manticore is a reference to the actual manticore that tried to kill Dany. Why is it grouped with the other two. Do all three individually try to kill her at some point?

Also, house Lorch, the man who killed Dany's niece, and a Lannister bannerman. Hard to see why house Lorch would be grouped with Aegon and Jon Con tho.

House Lorch has manticore in their coat of arms. Wiki says that a knight of the Lorchs took part in the Faith Militant uprising against Maegor the Cruel.

It seems to me again a bit odd if this is a reference to House Lorch though. Why is it grouped with the other two who are so clearly together? JonCon and Aegon will not want anything to do with the House of a man who carried out the killing of Aegon's supposed sister.

[FittleLinger]

I'm not the biggest fan of Tyrion as a dragonrider, but here is this tidbit. It's not an actual qoute since I don't have my English copies with me.

In ADWD, Tyrion IV I believe, he remarks how he likes sleeping on top of the Shy maid, so he can see the stars and not listen to Duck's snoring, but it has it's toll - his legs are swollen.

Well the Shy maid can be the shy dragon (Viseryon), he likes it because flying makes him fell free and be far from earthly stuff (ducks quacking?), but it takes it's toll, swollen legs, as he remarks several times that after riding (a horse) his legs hurt.

Another thing, probably reading far too much, but there's a parallel. In the tourney of Harrenhall, Lyanna pours wine over Benjen's head because he teases her that she cried to Rhaegar's song. Now Lyanna is dead (indirectly caused by her husband) and Benjen is missing.

On the purple wedding, Joff pours wine over Tyrion's head. Now Joffrey is dead (killed indirectly by his wife) and Tyrion is missing.

[The Answer]

Last page of Arya's first chapter in the series. Jon urges her to go back to her room to avoid harsh punishment...

"You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the Spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

GRRM is a legend.

[mb2518]

Last page of Arya's first chapter in the series. Jon urges her to go back to her room to avoid harsh punishment...

"You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the Spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

GRRM is a legend.

If you pair that with the "dying girl on a pale, grey horse" from ADWD, it could apply to Jeyne, who is currently posing as Arya.

[tf13]

Jon's third to last chapter in ASOS:

He was awake when Owen came to him, lying restless under a pile of furs on the floor of the warming shed. "Lord Snow", said Owen, shaking his shoulder, "the dawn".

Foreshadowing Jon being the lead in command in the Battle for Dawn. Or waking just in time to prepare for the Battle for Dawn.

Eta: Owen's next line: "I had a dream the King had come." It'll soon be obvious foreshadowing of Stannis' arrival, but really it'll be long-term foreshadowing of Jon's return to lead against the Others.

[The Answer]

If you pair that with the "dying girl on a pale, grey horse" from ADWD, it could apply to Jeyne, who is currently posing as Arya.

True but Jeyne doesn't have a sword called needle.

I see what you're saying though.

I don't necessarily think it means Arya will be found dead... Just that she will play a role in the fight up North. It's going to be incredible. .

[Lost Melnibonean]

Jon's third to last chapter in ASOS:

He was awake when Owen came to him, lying restless under a pile of furs on the floor of the warming shed. "Lord Snow", said Owen, shaking his shoulder, "the dawn".

Foreshadowing Jon being the lead in command in the Battle for Dawn. Or waking just in time to prepare for the Battle for Dawn.

Eta: Owen's next line: "I had a dream the King had come." It'll soon be obvious foreshadowing of Stannis' arrival, but really it'll be long-term foreshadowing of Jon's return to lead against the Others.

Or, maybe a hit that Jon is the rightful king, or at least a potential claimant, but he's needed at the Wall anyway.

[jet199]

It seems to me again a bit odd if this is a reference to House Lorch though. Why is it grouped with the other two who are so clearly together? JonCon and Aegon will not want anything to do with the House of a man who carried out the killing of Aegon's supposed sister.

Maybe one of the other companions is a Lorch, we don't have a surname for either Septa Lemore or Haldon. I would go for Lemore if it is one of those as, looking at the wiki, Lorches tend to have names beginning with L and the one that doesn't, Amory, is quite close to Lemore.

If the baby swap really happened then it would make sense for Gregor to have been involved but Amory Lorch could have been Varys' man who would have been planted to disfigured the substitute prince if Gregor hadn't had done it for them.

[tf13]

Dany's last ASOS chapter:

"'I will not sit on the harpy's lap,' she told them. Instead she sat upon a simple ebony bench."

This foreshadows Dany eventually riding Drogon.

ETA: When Dany is banishing Jorah, she recounts how her men took Meereen and mentions Jorah killing a pale white lizard who had killed another one of the men in the sewers. I wonder if this has any connection to Viserion? Could Jorah kill a dragon?

[Mithras]

· Varamyr was born weak and jealous of his younger sibling.

· Cersei is weak. She is jealous of the genitals and sword hand of Jaime and the wits of Tyrion.

· Varamyr had a very high opinion of himself. He assumed a kingly name (Varamyr) while his original name was Lump.

· Cersei likes to think of herself as Lord Tywin with teats.

· Varamyr killed his sibling.

· Cersei tortured Tyrion and abused Jaime.

· Varamyr desired to be the King-beyond-the-Wall.

· Cersei desires to be ruler of the Realm.

· To compensate weakness, Varamyr kept a variety of beasts as thralls. This is like the menageries kept by rulers to show their power.

· “First these Kettleblacks, then Qyburn, now her. It’s a queer menagerie you are keeping these days, sweet sister.” Cersei keeps her own “thralls”. Qyburn all in white looks like a snow bear and Taena is a shadowcat. And we have three Kettleblacks for Varamyr's three wolves. All coincidence?

· Varamyr used his wolves for his evil purposes (like kidnapping girls, killing babies).

· Cersei used Kettleblacks for her evil purposes including the murder of the old High Septon.

· Varamyr did not take responsibility of his crimes. A shiver went through him. He had done bad things, terrible things. He had stolen, killed, raped. He had gorged on human flesh and lapped the blood of dying men as it gushed red and hot from their torn throats. He had stalked foes through the woods, fallen on them as they slept, clawed their entrails from their bellies and scattered them across the muddy earth. How sweet their meat had tasted. “That was the beast, not me,” he said in a hoarse whisper. “That was the gift you gave me.”

· Cersei never accepts the responsibility or fault for anything, even if it is almost entirely her fault.

· Varamyr is a typical sociopath with no empathy.

· Cersei is a typical sociopath with no empathy.

· Varamyr was haunted by Haggon.

· Cersei is haunted by Maggy and her prophecy.

After so many parallels, I think we can expect Cersei to meet a similar end to Varamyr.

Varamyr went temporarily mad with Mel’s fire. He lost all his power and without his beasts, he was not recognizable. He assumed the name of Haggon in his brief fall-from-grace life.

A squirrel-skin cloak, he remembered, he knifed me for a squirrel-skin cloak.

Death was not so easily outrun, however. So when Varamyr came upon the dead woman in the wood, he knelt to strip the cloak from her, and never saw the boy until he burst from hiding to drive the long bone knife into his side and rip the cloak out of his clutching fingers. “His mother,” Thistle told him later, after the boy had run off. “It were his mother’s cloak, and when he saw you robbing her …”

“She was dead,” Varamyr said, wincing as her bone needle pierced his flesh. “Someone smashed her head. Some crow.”

“No crow. Hornfoot men. I saw it.” Her needle pulled the gash in his side closed. “Savages, and who’s left to tame them?”

I think Cersei will increasingly go mad. She will first lose Tommen to Lady Nym’s poisoned knives. Myrcella will probably witness this and after learning the truth about her parentage, she will throw herself from Maegor’s Holdfast. By that time riots and uprisings will sweep all over the city. Dany with her dragonriders and armies will get closer to the capitol. Then Cersei will activate the wildfire plot and the city will burn. After that, she will disguise herself as a commoner and assume the name Maggy. Many people will flee the city and Cersei will be among them.

A boy killed Varamyr for a squirrel-skin cloak. Arya has been called a boy and a squirrel. So, Arya will be among the people fleeing KL and put a knife in Cersei’s belly (similar to the squire in the inn with Hound) to give her a slow and ugly death. I think Jaime will find her wounded and doomed to death. Then he will strangle her to death.

[coil]

· Varamyr was born weak and jealous of his younger sibling.

· Cersei is weak. She is jealous of the genitals and sword hand of Jaime and the wits of Tyrion.

· Varamyr had a very high opinion of himself. He assumed a kingly name (Varamyr) while his original name was Lump.

· Cersei likes to think of herself as Lord Tywin with teats.

· Varamyr killed his sibling.

· Cersei tortured Tyrion and abused Jaime.

· Varamyr desired to be the King-beyond-the-Wall.

· Cersei desires to be ruler of the Realm.

· To compensate weakness, Varamyr kept a variety of beasts as thralls. This is like the menageries kept by rulers to show their power.

· “First these Kettleblacks, then Qyburn, now her. It’s a queer menagerie you are keeping these days, sweet sister.” Cersei keeps her own “thralls”. Qyburn all in white looks like a snow bear and Taena is a shadowcat. And we have three Kettleblacks for Varamyr's three wolves. All coincidence?

· Varamyr used his wolves for his evil purposes (like kidnapping girls, killing babies).

· Cersei used Kettleblacks for her evil purposes including the murder of the old High Septon.

· Varamyr did not take responsibility of his crimes. A shiver went through him. He had done bad things, terrible things. He had stolen, killed, raped. He had gorged on human flesh and lapped the blood of dying men as it gushed red and hot from their torn throats. He had stalked foes through the woods, fallen on them as they slept, clawed their entrails from their bellies and scattered them across the muddy earth. How sweet their meat had tasted. “That was the beast, not me,” he said in a hoarse whisper. “That was the gift you gave me.”

· Cersei never accepts the responsibility or fault for anything, even if it is almost entirely her fault.

· Varamyr is a typical sociopath with no empathy.

· Cersei is a typical sociopath with no empathy.

· Varamyr was haunted by Haggon.

· Cersei is haunted by Maggy and her prophecy.

After so many parallels, I think we can expect Cersei to meet a similar end to Varamyr.

Varamyr went temporarily mad with Mel’s fire. He lost all his power and without his beasts, he was not recognizable. He assumed the name of Haggon in his brief fall-from-grace life.

A squirrel-skin cloak, he remembered, he knifed me for a squirrel-skin cloak.

Death was not so easily outrun, however. So when Varamyr came upon the dead woman in the wood, he knelt to strip the cloak from her, and never saw the boy until he burst from hiding to drive the long bone knife into his side and rip the cloak out of his clutching fingers. “His mother,” Thistle told him later, after the boy had run off. “It were his mother’s cloak, and when he saw you robbing her …”

“She was dead,” Varamyr said, wincing as her bone needle pierced his flesh. “Someone smashed her head. Some crow.”

“No crow. Hornfoot men. I saw it.” Her needle pulled the gash in his side closed. “Savages, and who’s left to tame them?”

I think Cersei will increasingly go mad. She will first lose Tommen to Lady Nym’s poisoned knives. Myrcella will probably witness this and after learning the truth about her parentage, she will throw herself from Maegor’s Holdfast. By that time riots and uprisings will sweep all over the city. Dany with her dragonriders and armies will get closer to the capitol. Then Cersei will activate the wildfire plot and the city will burn. After that, she will disguise herself as a commoner and assume the name Maggy. Many people will flee the city and Cersei will be among them.

A boy killed Varamyr for a squirrel-skin cloak. Arya has been called a boy and a squirrel. So, Arya will be among the people fleeing KL and put a knife in Cersei’s belly (similar to the squire in the inn with Hound) to give her a slow and ugly death. I think Jaime will find her wounded and doomed to death. Then he will strangle her to death.

I really like your comparison between Varamyr and Cersei and at the same time I can't understand how you can jump from that to Lady Nym poisoning Tommen, Myrcella being at King's Landing (or suiciding), Dany being at KL at the same time, Cersei calling herself Maggy and Arya stabbing Cersei.

Was something left out of your post?

[Fire Eater]

snip

I think Varamyr is used more as a reference to Varys. In the name Varamyr you have Varamyr. You have the first three letters of Varys's name and the city he commonly points to as being from, Myr.

Varys likely isn't his true name like Varamyr's. Varamyr wanted to be King-Beyond-the-Wall while Varys, if he is a Blackfyre, likely wanted be the King on the IT, but later just wants his family, Aegon, to rule the IT. Varamyr killed his sibiling, and I think Varys killed his sister Serra when she tried to runaway with Aegon, and said she died in the grey plague going around.

Varamyr was mentored in the magic art of skinchanging by Haggon who taught him everything he knew, and Varys was likely mentored by the sorcerer who gelded him who taught him his magical arts. Varys is hinted at being a wizard several times, and I think like Varamyr, he later killed his mentor.

Finally, Varamyr wanted to kill Jon and take his direwolf, described as a second life fit for a king. Varys wanted to kill off the Targaryens, and take their throne.

A squirrel-skin cloak, he remembered, he knifed me for a squirrel-skin cloak.

Death was not so easily outrun, however. So when Varamyr came upon the dead woman in the wood, he knelt to strip the cloak from her, and never saw the boy until he burst from hiding to drive the long bone knife into his side and rip the cloak out of his clutching fingers. “His mother,” Thistle told him later, after the boy had run off. “It were his mother’s cloak, and when he saw you robbing her …”

“She was dead,” Varamyr said, wincing as her bone needle pierced his flesh. “Someone smashed her head. Some crow.”

“No crow. Hornfoot men. I saw it.” Her needle pulled the gash in his side closed. “Savages, and who’s left to tame them?”

I think the squirrel cloak does refer to Arya. She has practiced at hiding her knife up her sleeve, and she has been mistaken for a boy more than once. Add this to another piece of foreshadowing about Arya, and I think Arya will be the one who kills Varys, possibly by stabbing him.

[Mithras]

I think the squirrel cloak does refer to Arya. She has practiced at hiding her knife up her sleeve, and she has been mistaken for a boy more than once. Add this to another piece of foreshadowing about Arya, and I think Arya will be the one who kills Varys, possibly by stabbing him.

“The Lannisters have more than fifty men,” Arya pointed out.

“So they do, but every northerner is worth ten of these southron swords, so you can sleep easy.”

“What if a wizard was sent to kill him?”

“Well, as to that,” Desmond replied, drawing his longsword, “wizards die the same as other men, once you cut their heads off.”

The wizard Arya refers to is Varys in disguise. I think if she understands the true nature of Varys, she can cut his head off too, just to make sure that he is dead.

I really like your comparison between Varamyr and Cersei and at the same time I can't understand how you can jump from that to Lady Nym poisoning Tommen, Myrcella being at King's Landing (or suiciding), Dany being at KL at the same time, Cersei calling herself Maggy and Arya stabbing Cersei.

Was something left out of your post?

I was trying to make a point that Tommen and Myrcella will die according to Maggy's prophecy. Their manner of death is not the primary subject of my post. After Cersei loses everything and falls-from grace, she should escape anonymously under the name of Maggy, if the parallel between her and Varamyr holds.

[Lyse Stark]

I think Varamyr is used more as a reference to Varys. In the name Varamyr you have Varamyr. You have the first three letters of Varys's name and the city he commonly points to as being from, Myr.

Varys likely isn't his true name like Varamyr's. Varamyr wanted to be King-Beyond-the-Wall while Varys, if he is a Blackfyre, likely wanted be the King on the IT, but later just wants his family, Aegon, to rule the IT. Varamyr killed his sibiling, and I think Varys killed his sister Serra when she tried to runaway with Aegon, and said she died in the grey plague going around.

Varamyr was mentored in the magic art of skinchanging by Haggon who taught him everything he knew, and Varys was likely mentored by the sorcerer who gelded him who taught him his magical arts. Varys is hinted at being a wizard several times, and I think like Varamyr, he later killed his mentor.

Finally, Varamyr wanted to kill Jon and take his direwolf, described as a second life fit for a king. Varys wanted to kill off the Targaryens, and take their throne.

I think the squirrel cloak does refer to Arya. She has practiced at hiding her knife up her sleeve, and she has been mistaken for a boy more than once. Add this to another piece of foreshadowing about Arya, and I think Arya will be the one who kills Varys, possibly by stabbing him.

Paper Waver has a point. Cersei's life will to a point, be a parallel to Varamyr's but there will be key divergences. I believe that when she burns down King's Landings, she will die there, unlike Varamyr, who died when he was stabbed by the boy with the squirrel cloak. Varys will be killed by Arya after FAegon is killed off in battle, while Cersei is strangled by Jamie when Jon comes to seize her throne in order to defend the realm from the Others.

In that aspect, Cersei and Varys are both Varamyr's parallels.

[Fire Eater]

smiling his [Tywin's] secret smile that only Cersei ever saw

Prince Doran shared his secret smile with her.

In the former, Tywin is telling Cersei his plan to marry her to Rhaegar. In the latter, Doran is telling Arianne of a fleet hiding an army stopping in Lys, Aegon. I think this provides further foreshadowing to Arianne marrying Aegon.

[tf13]

Jon's Stannis Stannis Stannis chapter in ASOS:

"...to show his lord father that he could be as good and true a son as Robb. I made a botch of that. Rob had become a hero king; if Jon was remembered at all, it would be as a turncloak, an pathbreaker and a murderer."

Little does he know....

[Lyse Stark]

Jon's Stannis Stannis Stannis chapter in ASOS:

"...to show his lord father that he could be as good and true a son as Robb. I made a botch of that. Rob had become a hero king; if Jon was remembered at all, it would be as a turncloak, an pathbreaker and a murderer."

Little does he know....

That he is the true king of the lands, and Jon Snow knows nothing.

[jet199]

Tyrion's green and black eyes are probably a foreshadowing of him playing both sided in the dance of dragons 2.0.

I was re-reading the un-kiss scene and noticed -

Outside, a swirling lance of jade light spit at the stars, filling the room with green glare. She saw him for a moment, all black and green, the blood on his face dark as tar, his eyes glowing like a dog’s in the sudden glare. Then the light faded and he was only a hulking darkness in a stained white cloak

This may mean that Sandor will also be involved in the fight between Dany and Aegon.

[LittleDragon8]

smiling his [Tywin's] secret smile that only Cersei ever saw

Prince Doran shared his secret smile with her.

In the former, Tywin is telling Cersei his plan to marry her to Rhaegar. In the latter, Doran is telling Arianne of a fleet hiding an army stopping in Lys, Aegon. I think this provides further foreshadowing to Arianne marrying Aegon.

Only, in the case of Tywin and Cersei, they were planning an event that never happened: the betrothal of Cersei and Rhaegar. You could argue it could be the same for Doran & Arianne. That whatever plan they have involving Aegon and a possible marriage contract, won't actually work out as originally intended, i.e. a marriage between Aegon and Arianne won't actually take place.

[Mithras]

“He was my father’s ward. We grew up together in Riverrun. I thought of him as a brother, but his feelings for me were… more than brotherly. When it was announced that I was to wed Brandon Stark, Petyr challenged for the right to my hand. It was madness. Brandon was twenty, Petyr scarcely fifteen. I had to beg Brandon to spare Petyr’s life. He let him off with a scar. Afterward my father sent him away. I have not seen him since.”

Littlefinger carries the scar of his duel with Brandon.

“Tell me, Alayne—which is more dangerous, the dagger brandished by an enemy, or the hidden one pressed to your back by someone you never even see?”

“The hidden dagger.”

“There’s a clever girl.” He smiled, his thin lips bright red from the pomegranate seeds. “When the Imp sent off her guards, the queen had Ser Lancel hire sellswords for her. Lancel found her the Kettleblacks, which delighted your little lord husband, since the lads were in his pay through his man Bronn.” He chuckled. “But it was me who told Oswell to get his sons to King’s Landing when I learned that Bronn was looking for swords. Three hidden daggers, Alayne, now perfectly placed.”

“So one of the Kettleblacks put the poison in Joff’s cup?” Ser Osmund had been near the king all night, she remembered.

“Did I say that?” Lord Petyr cut the blood orange in two with his dagger and offered half to Sansa. “The lads are far too treacherous to be part of any such scheme . . . and Osmund has become especially unreliable since he joined the Kingsguard. That white cloak does things to a man, I find. Even a man like him.”

Kettleblacks are the pets of LF. However, they are not entirely reliable. LF pairs his unreliable agents together and bid them to spy each other secretly (e.g. Lothor Brune and Oswell Kettleblack watching each other). That way LF remains sure of their loyalty. So who spies the Kettleblack brothers for LF in KL secretly?

Lady Merryweather’s dark eyes shone with mischief. “Just so. Scars make a man look dangerous, and danger is exciting.”

“You shock me, my lady,” the queen said, teasing. “If danger excites you so, why wed Lord Orton? We all love him, it is true, but still...” Petyr had once remarked that the horn of plenty that adorned House Merryweather’s arms suited Lord Orton admirably, since he had carrot-colored hair, a nose as bulbous as a beetroot, and pease porridge for wits.

Taena laughed. “My lord is more bountiful than dangerous, this is so. Yet... I hope Your Grace will not think the less of me, but I did not come a maid entire to Orton’s bed.”

You are all whores in the Free Cities, aren’t you? That was good to know; one day, she might be able to make use of it. “And pray, who was this lover who was so... full of danger?”

Taena’s olive skin turned even darker as she blushed. “Oh, I should not have spoken. Your Grace will keep my secret, yes?”

In this passage, the man who took the maidenhead of Taena cries like PEEEEEETYR, considering the bolded words. What LF said about Lord Orton misses something. Horn of plenty suits Lord Orton mostly because of the plenty of horns LF and Taena gave him. LF finds and exploits the weakness in a person. I think the following passage shows how Taena ended up serving him as a spy.

Lady Lysa and Lord Petyr had the third-story bedchamber to themselves, but the tower was small . . . and true to her word, her aunt screamed. It had begun to rain outside, driving the feasters into the hall one floor below, so they heard most every word. “Petyr,” her aunt moaned. “Oh, Petyr, Petyr, sweet Petyr, oh oh oh. There, Petyr, there. That’s where you belong.” Lady Lysa’s singer launched into a bawdy version of “Milady’s Supper,” but even his singing and playing could not drown out Lysa’s cries. “Make me a baby, Petyr,” she screamed, “make me another sweet little baby. Oh, Petyr, my precious, my precious, PEEEEEETYR!” Her last shriek was so loud that it set the dogs to barking, and two of her aunt’s ladies could scarce contain their mirth.

I think all these clearly show that the true loyalty of Taena lies with LF. I believe Lord Orton works in team fAegon as one of the friends in the Reach. So this means that LF is aware of fAegon conspiracy for a long time.