Jojen Dayne-Reed Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I really like this. The idea that HR is in the middle of kings landing with a bunch of Crannogmen dressed as sparrows is far to excellent to not believe. It certainly exsplains where a septon got a bunch of followers with axes willing to march into KL. As to the old gods problem. He doesn't have to pretend to follow the 7 forever. Just until he decides to make his move. Then the HS dies mysteriously and HR reappears in the Neck. This also puts a big new toy in the mix for the GNC folks. Especially if the Mormonts (and therefore the gnc) know that HR is building an army in the middle of KL (and by extension the Starks are building an army. And by extension extension Jon Snow is building an army (r+l not withstanding)Eta: now that I think of it, where are the GNC folks? I feel like this would get their wheels spinning something fierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeron_Damphair Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Forgive my foggy recall, but Cersei has a pretty substantial conversation with Taena (I think it was Taena) about how the HSs give up their given names once they reach HS status. Also she speaks of how it is difficult to describe a particular past HS, needing to describe any given one as "the fat one" or "the bald one" or "the one after the fat one." To me this sets up nicely for the current HS, who is playing a very significant role in the narrative, being an important, though as yet unidentified character from the back story. Like everybody else has already said, the biggest problem with it being HR is his strict reverence for the old gods. I guess it's theoretically possible that his seven worship could all be a trick, but I think it's more than a trivial objection. I also think Howland Reed is likely too important, and therefore too recognizable, to be unidentified within King's Landing. I do like the idea that the HS is a familiar name though, and that it will be a dramatic reveal at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 What would he gain by being the HS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 A couple of more arguments for HR=HS: 1. Even though Cersei is expected at Baelor's Sept, all the septons are cleaning the floor. In effect, the floor is a swamp. 2. The symmetry between the Knight of the Laughing Tree story and HR=HS. -A Stark (Lyanna) anonymously becomes something she's not (armed knight), whose symbol is religious (weirwood tree) to right the injustice done to HR.-HR anonymously becomes something he's not (high septon), whose symbol is not religious (armed sparrows) to right the injustice done to a Stark (Ned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayura Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I highly doubt Reed is the High Septon, as he is of the North and went to the Isles of Faces to face the old gods and he sent his greendreamer son help Bran Stark become the new greenseer for the Old Gods, he wouldn't qualify as HS of the faith of the Seven... The likeliest theory is that Varys has infiltrated the Faith and the King the High Septon is expecting is Aegon. Let's not forget Aegon has been specifically instructed in the faith of the Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanless Mace Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This is not Howland Reed. The crannog men revere the Old Gods, this would go against everything that we know of Howland.This. The HS inevitably is someone who was involved in the church all his life and risen through the ranks, or else other Septons would not support his rise.Not everyone in ASOIAF is someone else. Though I do have hopes Penny is a Blackfrey descendent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paeon Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hah, this is my new favorite crackpot. GRRM stated in an SSM that we WILL be meeting Reed at some point. Question 3: It had been stated that Howland Reed would come out in The Winds of Winter, which is the 5th book. Will he still come in the 5th book (A Dance with Dragon)?Answer: He will appear eventually. - SSM 9/1/2001 I forget exactly who described him as "Brave, Strong Smart", if it was Ned, or one of the Reed children, but it would be a hell of a twist if in response to Robb's envoy asking for help. Even more interesting was that GRRM confirmed this envoy in an SSM with regards to Robb's legitimization of Jon. I have a question, since Robb actually legitimized Jon and named him his heir for Winterfell and the North before the Red Wedding (granted no one knows about this and is still alive or free, the Greatjon knows as does Edmure, but Idont see them getting out of the Twins any time soon and Catelyn would probably die before telling anyone) does this make Jon's rejection of Stannis' offer moot? Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true... but you are forgetting the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed... Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Jason Mallister... they are all alive and free - SSM 8/6/2000 If there is any man who could infiltrate King's Landing with an army unnoticed, why couldn't it be HR with his army of "sparrows" which may very well by mixed with his Crannogmen? We really know nothing about the High Sparrow, and he arrived on the scene quite suddenly. He was stated to be a "wandering septon" who visited villages so it would stand to reason other Septons may not have known him very well. Also he gained his position not because of politics within the religious hierarchy, but because he led the religious revolution of the Sparrows and essentially claimed the title. Also, what is the Crannogmen weapon that Meera was taught to use by her father? A net and a frog spear. And if HR is in fact the High Sparrow, he has Cersei well and caught in his net at the moment. Note: There is also a Godswood in KL, as HR knows his children went to find Bran, he may attempt to communicate with Bran at some point in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Well argued except for one crucial flaw. Howland Reed keeps the Old Gods of the First Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paeon Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Well argued except for one crucial flaw. Howland Reed keeps the Old Gods of the First Men.Well he can fake it for the sake of infiltrating the red keep.He's waiting for the right time to "anoint" Tommen, but when it comes it may not be what she expects.I think that GRRM can have alot of fun with this if it's true. Still a crackpot though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Well argued except for one crucial flaw. Howland Reed keeps the Old Gods of the First Men. The new High Septon is keeping the Seven Gods in a radically different manner. Cersei wonders: "Are you a priest or a greengrocer?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojen Dayne-Reed Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 What would he gain by being the HS?[note: Old Gods issue also down there. It got longer then I intended. Sorry.]The ability to walk an army through the open gates of KL. He originally showed up with a large group of well armed "sparrows". So he's halfway there. All the North would have to do is put a sparrow robe on and the entire Northern army could waltz into KL armed and armored. No one in power seems to pay to much attention to sparrows and septons. So it's a great disguise. You don't need to break down the walls of KL to sac it. Just walk in. Very clever. As to the old gods issue three points. 1) the HS normally has to be a well known high placed septon. But as Cersi said this HS was elected when he and a group of armed "sparrows" busted into the conclave and "suggested" a new vote. No one knows who the HS was before this so he could literally be a random guy off the street. You don't need credentials when you application includes a bunch of guys with axes making suggestive looks. 2) yes HR follows the old gods. So? He's pretending to be HS not converting. That's just how being a double agent works. You pretend to be loyal to someone to whom you are not. He's faking it. And yes he has no extensive education in the 7 but again his resume included "or this man will hit you with his ax." Which is a compelling argument. 3) he is a weird HS. Everyone thinks something funny is going on with him. I'm inclined to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmoove Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Its super crackpot, no-way theory Really no-way? Well there you have it, no-way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 It might not just be avenging Ned. Howland may know that the Others are coming, the south is helpless and oblivious. The North has Jon Snow as Lord Commander and Bran. He may be looking for a way to influence the disbelievers in power when the time comes. Taking down the crazy, unstable, Cersei is great. It leaves reasonable Tyrells with a massive army and a suggestable boy-king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 2) yes HR follows the old gods. So? He's pretending to be HS not converting. That's just how being a double agent works. You pretend to be loyal to someone to whom you are not. He's faking it. And yes he has no extensive education in the 7 but again his resume included "or this man will hit you with his ax." Which is a compelling argument. Taena and Cersei make a good bit of noise about why High Septons use no name, which only furthers the question of what the new High Septon's name really is. The new HS claims that: "Before coming to King’s Landing, I tended to half a hundred little villages too small to have a septon of their own. I walked from each one to the next, performing marriages, absolving sinners of their sins, naming newborn children." If HR=HS then reading the Seven Pointed Star and tending village flocks was how HR educated himself in the faith of the seven gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Crannogman Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I just want to know one thing, is the eye colour of the high sparrow stated specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 No. HR was not "born with filth beneath his nails". He's a Lord. He was born the heir to a Lordship. Coming from a marshy territory does not mean the Lord toils in the dirt alongside the serfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thats just Taena and Cesei gossiping and being catty. "My lord husband tells me this new one was born with filth beneath his fingernails.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisenan69 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It might not just be avenging Ned. Howland may know that the Others are coming, the south is helpless and oblivious. The North has Jon Snow as Lord Commander and Bran. He may be looking for a way to influence the disbelievers in power when the time comes. Taking down the crazy, unstable, Cersei is great. It leaves reasonable Tyrells with a massive army and a suggestable boy-king.This. What a great twist in the story this will be if it turns out right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbjm Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I hope this theory turns out to be true, it has instantly become my favourite crackpot theory! I don't understand people saying that it cant be true because HR follows the old gods. As Jojen Dayne-Reed pointed out above, a double agent only has to act like he believes, he doesnt have to actually believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No.Wait.What?Why?When?How?Then?No.Really.What?But.No.Man.What?Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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