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Xray the Enforcer

R + L = J v 72

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PLEASE REPORT THE THREAD ONCE IT REACHES 400 POSTS. THANK YOU.

Reference guide

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories


Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?
Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the Kingsguard opted to stay at the Tower of Joy stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a Kingsguard's vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty.
For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.

But polygamy hadn't been practiced in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option.

Weren't the Kingsguard at Tower of Joy on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in line any time after the situation started to look really serious.
Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the Kingsguard might have stayed at Tower of Joy, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.

This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the A Song of Ice and Fire readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 17 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother?
Ned doesn't think about anyone as being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon care? Who cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Previous editions:

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

R+L=J v.22a” (thread twenty-two (a))

R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

R+L=J #33” (thread thirty-three)

R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

"R+L=J v.40" (thread forty)


"R+L=J v. 41" (thread forty-one)

"R+L=J v.42" (thread forty-two)

"R+L=J v.43" (thread forty-three)

"R+L=J v.44" (thread forty-four)

"R+L=J v.45" (thread forty-five)

"R+L=J v.46" (thread forty-six)

"R+L=J v.47" (thread forty-seven)

"R+L=J v.48" (thread forty-eight)

"R+L=J v.49" (thread forty-nine)

"R+L=J v.50" (thread fifty)

"R+L=J v.51" (thread fifty-one)


"R+L=J v.52" (thread fifty-two)

"R+L=J v.53" (thread fifty-three)

"R+L=J v.54" (thread fifty=four)

"R+L=J v.55" (thread fifty-five)

"R+L=J v.56" (thread fifty-six)


"R+L=J v.57" (thread fifty-seven)

"R+L=J v 58" (thread fifty-eight)

"R+L=J v 59" (thread fifty-nine)

"R+L=J v 60" (thread sixty)

"R+L=J v 61" (thread sixty-one)

"R+L=J v 62" (thread sixty-two)

"R+L=J v 63" (thread sixty-three)

"R+L=J v 64" (thread sixty four)

"R+L=J v 65" (thread sixty five)

R+L=J v 66 (thread sixty-six)

"R+L=J v 67" (thread sixty-seven)

"R+L=J v 68" (thread sixty-eight)

"R+L=J v 69" (thread sixty-nine)

"R+L=J v 70" (thread seventy)
"R+L=J v 71" (thread seventy-one)

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So I managed to end the last thread with a leek.



http://www.thestranger.com/binary/f9a6/1499999P_d26152e559-magnum.jpg






YGRAIN:



Believe me, when I quote something, I know where it comes from :P


ME3, DA:O, ASOIAF. Hm, hm, what might those three have in common...



Bioware and GRRM? The hero making hard choices? Love those games by the way. (except the ending of ME3 :dunce: )


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So I managed to end the last thread with a leek.

http://www.thestranger.com/binary/f9a6/1499999P_d26152e559-magnum.jpg

Bioware and GRRM? The hero making hard choices? Love those games by the way. (except the ending of ME3 :dunce: )

The hero making hard choices in order to stop an ancient evil :D

Of course, Bioware chickened out and in most cases, wrote in loopholes to bypass the really tough choices (or avoided some at all, such as having Shepard sacrifice the Earth to prevent the Reapers seize the Citadel, which, of course, woud have been the logical thing to do). As for the RGB ending, in my headcanon, it doesn't exist :-)

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So....um. I usually check in on this thread briefly around the start of each new version to see if there have been any advances in the theory.

*You guys are getting weirder*

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*You guys are getting weirder*

You should have seen the end of the previous thread. It got to explaining where babies come from.

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You should have seen the end of the previous thread. It got to explaining where babies come from.

True, and I put in an pollination analogy there too. :shocked: Then explained the analogy from a scientific viewpoint. It really made the thread interesting.

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True, and I put in an pollination analogy there too. :shocked: Then explained the analogy from a scientific viewpoint. It really made the thread interesting.

Thread 69 cast a long, dark shadow.

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Thread 69 cast a long, dark shadow.

Funny because it seemed innocent enough on its own...

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Funny because it seemed innocent enough on its own...

It was but a foreshadowing of things to come. For the forums are dark and full of errors.

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The hero making hard choices in order to stop an ancient evil :D

Of course, Bioware chickened out and in most cases, wrote in loopholes to bypass the really tough choices (or avoided some at all, such as having Shepard sacrifice the Earth to prevent the Reapers seize the Citadel, which, of course, woud have been the logical thing to do). As for the RGB ending, in my headcanon, it doesn't exist :-)

I'm headcanoning the Citadel DLC as the actual ending after my Shep overcame the indoctrination attempt in the base game and somehow survived the fall... :pirate:

Anyways, the forums are dark and full of terrors but I have a question:

Does anyone think that Jon will go through an external transformation that will match his internal one after the stab, stab, stabbing? Like somehow getting his hair all white (Targysh) after returnning to the land of the living, or unliving for that matter?

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I don't know whether to run or follow the linkies

Run. Definitely.

I'm headcanoning the Citadel DLC as the actual ending after my Shep overcame the indoctrination attempt in the base game and somehow survived the fall... :pirate:

Anyways, the forums are dark and full of terrors but I have a question:

Does anyone think that Jon will go through an external transformation that will match his internal one after the stab, stab, stabbing? Like somehow getting his hair all white (Targysh) after returnning to the land of the living, or unliving for that matter?

Concerning that DLC, I'm ignoring the whole plotline after the fall through the fishtank. That was epic. And, of course, the romance and the party, but the evil clone never happened. My headcanon ending... not that happy, but I'd say that it is in line with Shepard finding his own solution, not the one forced on him.

What sort of external transformation do you have on mind? Something like Vic's hand, or Cat's face? Or shiny blue eyes? I guess that will largely depend whether he is really dead or just close to death - if the former, I'd say that the option cannot be excluded.

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But has Mel not already seen he was a man, then a wolf, and then a man again? That doesn't seem to me like he underwent some physical change like eye/skin/hair colour, whatever you can come up with.

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I'm headcanoning the Citadel DLC as the actual ending after my Shep overcame the indoctrination attempt in the base game and somehow survived the fall... :pirate:

Anyways, the forums are dark and full of terrors but I have a question:

Does anyone think that Jon will go through an external transformation that will match his internal one after the stab, stab, stabbing? Like somehow getting his hair all white (Targysh) after returnning to the land of the living, or unliving for that matter?

Once he discovers the secrets of the Winterfell Crypts in his coma, he will wake up with white hair, 5 inches taller and we will discover that his eyes really were purple the whole time. Howland Reed, among his other capabilities, is also a skilled glamourist.

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Run. Definitely.

Concerning that DLC, I'm ignoring the whole plotline after the fall through the fishtank. That was epic. And, of course, the romance and the party, but the evil clone never happened. My headcanon ending... not that happy, but I'd say that it is in line with Shepard finding his own solution, not the one forced on him.

Heh, well, I liked it. ;) Though you put some emphasis on Legion's sacrifice, something that didn't sit quite right with me, but nice fic nonetheless.

What sort of external transformation do you have on mind? Something like Vic's hand, or Cat's face? Or shiny blue eyes? I guess that will largely depend whether he is really dead or just close to death - if the former, I'd say that the option cannot be excluded.

Well, depends on the manner of his rebirth. Shiny blue eyes and white hair don't seem that far out there, especially if he returns somewhat evilish and vengeful in nature. I love this painting of LS: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/b/b3/Zippo514_LadyStoneheart.jpg

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I'm headcanoning the Citadel DLC as the actual ending after my Shep overcame the indoctrination attempt in the base game and somehow survived the fall... :pirate:

Anyways, the forums are dark and full of terrors but I have a question:

Does anyone think that Jon will go through an external transformation that will match his internal one after the stab, stab, stabbing? Like somehow getting his hair all white (Targysh) after returnning to the land of the living, or unliving for that matter?

No I think not.

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Heh, well, I liked it. ;) Though you put some emphasis on Legion's sacrifice, something that didn't sit quite right with me, but nice fic nonetheless.

Thanks :-)

Legion is there because I consider the peace between the geth and quarians pivotal for the stand against the Catalyst and the geth philosophy as a counterpoint to its RGB "choices". Plus, Legion's sacrifice is reflected upon in EDI's post-Rannoch dialogues and it makes a parallel to what she and Shepard do.

Well, depends on the manner of his rebirth. Shiny blue eyes and white hair don't seem that far out there, especially if he returns somewhat evilish and vengeful in nature. I love this painting of LS: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/b/b3/Zippo514_LadyStoneheart.jpg

I love the shadows behind her :D

I don't think he will come back very vengeful but I can see him becoming increasingly ruthless in the pursuit of his goal.

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Thanks :-)

Legion is there because I consider the peace between the geth and quarians pivotal for the stand against the Catalyst and the geth philosophy as a counterpoint to its RGB "choices". Plus, Legion's sacrifice is reflected upon in EDI's post-Rannoch dialogues and it makes a parallel to what she and Shepard do.

I love the shadows behind her :D

I don't think he will come back very vengeful but I can see him becoming increasingly ruthless in the pursuit of his goal.

And somewhat Renegade-ish in nature if he see that the game of thrones is weakening Westeros. If that kind of scheming keep hurting the realm I wouldn't be surprised if he leave the guilty parties out to die at the Others' hands in order to teach them a thing or two.

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