True Detective V

[Madness]

Can anyone tell me what book is being read by one of the inmates as they pan in on Kelly Rita?

Also, do the captions tell you what Reggie Ledoux said offscreen either when Cohle first confronts Dewall or when Hart is walking out of the building to cap Reggie?

[Maithanet]

Couple of things no one mentioned:

During the 2012 interview, you can see that Cohle's left eye is messed up. This is where Hart punches him in 2002, and Cohle says "nice hook Marty".

The sex scene with Hart and Beth was the most egregious "male gaze" scene we've had yet. The only thing differentiating that from an 8 second porn clip is the lighting and to me doesn't seem to jibe well with the overall feel of the show. If we're supposed to find Hart's mix of misogyny and violence regarding women to be his "fatal flaw" (and I think we are), then why are these scenes filmed like a wet dream? Wouldn't it be better to have at least one shot of Hart looking like the dirty old lech he is, instead of an extended shot of Beth's orgasm?

Oh and Beth had a devil figurine in her room. SYMBOLISM.

Also, if people are discussing what is in the "on the next episode" scenes, could they put that in spoilers? I have been purposely avoiding those.

[Anatúrinbor]

Can anyone tell me what book is being read by one of the inmates as they pan in on Kelly Rita?

The Pioneer: African Adventure of Benedict Falda.

[markinnb]

Maggie's use of Rust was pure manipulation- served her own purpose for her own ends. it had toibe Rust. it couldn't be a stranger. as that would destroy MArty. she didn't seem to care that it would destroy Rust.

she admits it.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

The sex scene with Hart and Beth was the most egregious "male gaze" scene we've had yet. The only thing differentiating that from an 8 second porn clip is the lighting and to me doesn't seem to jibe well with the overall feel of the show. If we're supposed to find Hart's mix of misogyny and violence regarding women to be his "fatal flaw" (and I think we are), then why are these scenes filmed like a wet dream? Wouldn't it be better to have at least one shot of Hart looking like the dirty old lech he is, instead of an extended shot of Beth's orgasm?

Oh and Beth had a devil figurine in her room. SYMBOLISM.

Speaking of the male gaze, a timely article from the New Yorker . I tend to agree with the criticism, as far it goes, although I actually think that True Detective has been fairly restrained in its depictions of violence against women, even as its female characters have nothing to do but flash their breasts during sex scenes.

[Maple]

The dots are all there now, we just have to pick the right ones and put this together

Fontenot & Tuttle's foundation

This interesting and unusual surname is of Old French origin, and is one of the variant forms of the name Fontaine, which is in most instances a topographical name given to someone who lived near a spring or well, from the Old French "fontane", well, spring.

Fontenot & satanism

"my AP guy Ray Fontenot wanted to know if it was satanism"

[RumHam]

Chole has told Marty of his suspicions about Tuttle and the schools he funded right? I'm just thinking if Marty's daughter was a victim of some kinda abuse related to the case then she probably went to one of those schools right? and Marty should know that?

Preview talk:

I'm really hoping Marty's intense reaction to whatever video Chole just showed him has nothing to do with his daughter.

[peterbound]

Chole has told Marty of his suspicions about Tuttle and the schools he funded right? I'm just thinking if Marty's daughter was a victim of some kinda abuse related to the case then she probably went to one of those schools right? and Marty should know that?

Preview talk:

I'm really hoping Marty's intense reaction to whatever video Chole just showed him has nothing to do with his daughter.

I'm pretty sure the video has at least something to do with his daughter. Hell, if it didn't all this build up in the thread is going to be for nothing.

[Sci-2]

Speaking of the male gaze, a timely article from the New Yorker . I tend to agree with the criticism, as far it goes, although I actually think that True Detective has been fairly restrained in its depictions of violence against women, even as its female characters have nothing to do but flash their breasts during sex scenes.

I think Maggie did more than flash her breasts, but I did find the "fuck me in the ass" ex-hooker to be a bit ridiculous.

That said, I think [the] reviewer was letting one criticism color the entirety of the show. We're clearly not meant to think of Rust as being cool - we've seen numerous flaws and contradictions there. And the sex scene between him and Maggie definitely didn't feel titillating.

The show has flaws, but attempting to mark it as paper-thin makes the review feel too much like trolling.

[Tobin]

Maggie is remarried in 2012 - I've been trying to match up the name with the people we've seen so far, but it doesn't match any of the cops at least.

I think it's funny that she sizes up the detectives in a heartbeat and lies to their face about what caused the 'breakup'.

[silvervial]

Hart is a scumbag and deserving of everything bad that happens to him in his relationships with women, period.

Maggie shouldn't have used Rust the way she did, but she not only wanted to make sure she hurt Hart as much as she possibly could, but also to make sure that Marty would see her as "tainted" and so would leave her and the girls alone, not try to win her back like the last time. I perfectly understand her motives, and she's right that the only way Hart could be stopped was to make him not want her, but she really shouldn't have involved Cohle.

I did like the way Cohle immediately went to Hart for punishment for his part of the "sin." He let Marty hit him to pay him back for his not being strong enough to resist Maggie. He expiated his guilt and he could move on.

I also liked Cohle's arrogance in the relationship with Hart in 2002. He says "There's no you without me." After all, Cohle's the one who finds the clues, puts the cases together, and gets the confessions and Marty's career looks good. After a while, Cohle's just done with that, especially once he hears "Yellow King" again. I don't believe he makes any attempt to bring Hart in to his extra-curricular work. He merely uses Hart as cover/buffer until Hart is too farked up to provide that anymore and then Maggie is the last straw. Cohle has to quit so he can pursue the case, but without the resources and authority of a cop, it's taken him years to get to where he is in 2012.

I'm interested in why Cohle's bringing Marty into the case now? Is it just to find out what Marty may have told the new detectives, or is it because he recently discovered the material on Audrey? Or both? Is he showing Marty that stuff to motivate him? Or is it a bit of the "You should kill yourself" sadism he shows towards people he considers beneath consideration, like Lange (Yeah, you probably got Dora killed).

There's a couple of interpretations for Marty checking his gun at the end of the episode, too.

That truck of Rust's was stashed somewhere for at least 8 years. He couldn't have been driving around with the broken tail-light all this time, which is maybe what they were trying to show us by the shot set-up as Cohle was leading Marty off for a beer. So, where had he been and how had he been living for those 8 years...?

[Madness]

The Pioneer: African Adventure of Benedict Falda.

Thank you.

Maggie shouldn't have used Rust the way she did, but she not only wanted to make sure she hurt Hart as much as she possibly could, but also to make sure that Marty would see her as "tainted" and so would leave her and the girls alone, not try to win her back like the last time. I perfectly understand her motives, and she's right that the only way Hart could be stopped was to make him not want her, but she really shouldn't have involved Cohle.

I did like the way Cohle immediately went to Hart for punishment for his part of the "sin." He let Marty hit him to pay him back for his not being strong enough to resist Maggie. He expiated his guilt and he could move on.

Honestly, I'm not going to get into this here - as I only have the one remaining question of what Reggie's offscreen inaudible lines are - but this show should have done something shocking and had Cohle resist Maggie...

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

I think Maggie did more than flash her breasts, but I did find the "fuck me in the ass" ex-hooker to be a bit ridiculous.

That said, I think [the] reviewer was letting one criticism color the entirety of the show. We're clearly not meant to think of Rust as being cool - we've seen numerous flaws and contradictions there. And the sex scene between him and Maggie definitely didn't feel titillating.

The show has flaws, but attempting to mark it as paper-thin makes the review feel too much like trolling.

To be clear, Nussbaum doesn't call the show paper-thin. It calls the women in the show paper-thin. Which, honestly, seems like a perfectly fair criticism to me. She also doesn't call the sex scene between Rust and Maggie titillating; she acknowledges that it's filmed to be "gasp-worthy" - and her criticism is that Maggie's character is so thin.

I think there are two criticisms here that are inelegantly wound together.

1. Is that the women are all paper-thin as characters. This might be a side effect of what critics like Alan Sepinwall have observed, which is that there are only two real characters on the show - and those are Rust and Marty. Everyone else is a caricature. I actually disagree with that somewhat. Although the show doesn't have much room for other characters, I think Shea Whigham's preacher has, over the two scenes we've seen him in, developed more of a personality than Maggie even though she's been in every episode.

2. That the portrayal of the women on the show is problematic in its own right, apart from their two-dimensionality. They're either victims or objects of overt titillation.

[Sci-2]

Honestly, I'm not going to get into this here - as I only have the one remaining question of what Reggie's offscreen inaudible lines are - but this show should have done something shocking and had Cohle resist Maggie...

Gotta disagree. Cohle is weak and contradictory and often a dick as much as he's a man of integrity and hungry for Justice.

Making him resist would build up the idea of Cohle as some kind of ubermensch speaking supposed truths to power.

[Myk Lonmouth]

Notice how Tuttle's tie and hankerchief was yellow?

[The Monkey]

I loved the episode. The philosophical ramblings have been toned down, but it's all for the better (as much as I enjoyed them).

The Maggie/Cohle sex scene was one of the most tragic things I've seen in quite a while. Michelle Monaghan (Maggie) really brought her A-game there. The scene in the mental ward with the girl was also highly disturbing.

It's strange that they didn't bother to age up Maggie between 1995 and 2012; they did such a great job with Cohle and Marty so we know they have the make-up pros on their crew.

[peterbound]

It's strange that they didn't bother to age up Maggie between 1995 and 2012; they did such a great job with Cohle and Marty so we know they have the make-up pros on their crew.

I caught some aging in the 'newer' scenes. Some more aging, lines, and sadness.

[Maithanet]

Gotta disagree. Cohle is weak and contradictory and often a dick as much as he's a man of integrity and hungry for Justice.

Making him resist would build up the idea of Cohle as some kind of ubermensch speaking supposed truths to power.

I dunno, I thought it was a little difficult to believe that Cohle couldn't immediately see what Maggie was trying to do (ie, end her marriage). If, in the heat of the moment he was ok with that, then fine. But he seemed genuinely confused and angry immediately afterwards, which indicated that he didn't really understand what she was doing until after they were done. Which is some pretty awful detective work, Cohle.

But I agree with you that Cohle resisting would have been unfortunate for the show. I really liked the move, as the first time that any woman has really been proactive on the show, even if it was the rather base motivation of using sex to screw over the two men. I liked that Maggie regretted how much this would hurt Cohle, but not enough not to do it. She has her own problems to deal with and she doesn't owe him any favors.

[Madness]

Gotta disagree. Cohle is weak and contradictory and often a dick as much as he's a man of integrity and hungry for Justice.

Making him resist would build up the idea of Cohle as some kind of ubermensch speaking supposed truths to power.

But he seemed genuinely confused and angry immediately afterwards, which indicated that he didn't really understand what she was doing until after they were done. Which is some pretty awful detective work, Cohle.

But I agree with you that Cohle resisting would have been unfortunate for the show. I really liked the move, as the first time that any woman has really been proactive on the show, even if it was the rather base motivation of using sex to screw over the two men. I liked that Maggie regretted how much this would hurt Cohle, but not enough not to do it. She has her own problems to deal with and she doesn't owe him any favors.

See this is the thing. I don't care about Cohle's ubermensch status. It actually entirely ruins his character for me that he has this one human flaw remaining... the whole point of his character, to me, is that though he has this really intensely dark and depressing philosophy, Cohle reacts to it with intentions of doing good - his nihilistic viewpoint informs his pillar of justice complex...

He's like the batman of True Detective, for fuck sakes...

And now corruptible.

[Q the Cat]

Most definitely. The world is a much better place with Ginger in it.

I didn't find Rust's telling the mother to kill herself to be anything other than honest. That's the thing about his character that rubs everyone the wrong way; he doesn't varnish or soften anything he says.

A child killer in a women's prison is going to get tortured daily, and this is a woman who killed 3 babies. Never mind what I think about that personally; he was just stating the facts in typical Rust fashion.

:agree: Rust's "brutal" honestly is, in the case of the baby killing mother, an act of compassion. His delivery is almost always misunderstood, and that is just part of a brilliantly written character.

Ginger lives!

Hart is a scumbag and deserving of everything bad that happens to him in his relationships with women, period.

Maggie shouldn't have used Rust the way she did, but she not only wanted to make sure she hurt Hart as much as she possibly could, but also to make sure that Marty would see her as "tainted" and so would leave her and the girls alone, not try to win her back like the last time. I perfectly understand her motives, and she's right that the only way Hart could be stopped was to make him not want her, but she really shouldn't have involved Cohle.

I did like the way Cohle immediately went to Hart for punishment for his part of the "sin." He let Marty hit him to pay him back for his not being strong enough to resist Maggie. He expiated his guilt and he could move on.

I also liked Cohle's arrogance in the relationship with Hart in 2002. He says "There's no you without me." After all, Cohle's the one who finds the clues, puts the cases together, and gets the confessions and Marty's career looks good. After a while, Cohle's just done with that, especially once he hears "Yellow King" again. I don't believe he makes any attempt to bring Hart in to his extra-curricular work. He merely uses Hart as cover/buffer until Hart is too farked up to provide that anymore and then Maggie is the last straw. Cohle has to quit so he can pursue the case, but without the resources and authority of a cop, it's taken him years to get to where he is in 2012.

I'm interested in why Cohle's bringing Marty into the case now? Is it just to find out what Marty may have told the new detectives, or is it because he recently discovered the material on Audrey? Or both? Is he showing Marty that stuff to motivate him? Or is it a bit of the "You should kill yourself" sadism he shows towards people he considers beneath consideration, like Lange (Yeah, you probably got Dora killed).

There's a couple of interpretations for Marty checking his gun at the end of the episode, too.

That truck of Rust's was stashed somewhere for at least 8 years. He couldn't have been driving around with the broken tail-light all this time, which is maybe what they were trying to show us by the shot set-up as Cohle was leading Marty off for a beer. So, where had he been and how had he been living for those 8 years...?

I know Hart has done some serious douchebaggery, but I don't see him as completely bad/scumbag. He's broken. He doesn't even know it. He doesn't know himself.

I am also wondering why Cohle is choosing this time to bring Hart in to his investigation. I'm pretty sure they met up after both of their interviews have concluded though.