SpaceChampion Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Act 3 is really about testing Cohle's character. First test, sex with Maggie, he fails by giving in to temptation. Second test, killing Tuttle, he will fail by giving in to temptation to kill him. Third time, perhaps he succeeds whatever tests him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I dunno, I thought it was a little difficult to believe that Cohle couldn't immediately see what Maggie was trying to do (ie, end her marriage). If, in the heat of the moment he was ok with that, then fine. But he seemed genuinely confused and angry immediately afterwards, which indicated that he didn't really understand what she was doing until after they were done. Which is some pretty awful detective work, Cohle. But I agree with you that Cohle resisting would have been unfortunate for the show. I really liked the move, as the first time that any woman has really been proactive on the show, even if it was the rather base motivation of using sex to screw over the two men. I liked that Maggie regretted how much this would hurt Cohle, but not enough not to do it. She has her own problems to deal with and she doesn't owe him any favors. I totally believed that Cohle would miss what Maggie was doing since it appears he completely inebriated. He was too drunk to realize it quickly enough to refuse her. I'm glad they didn't have that happen with a sober Cohle, but that's the appeal - a most integral man, still has flaws. And yeah, Maggie was out to do the most damage possible to Marty. Cohle was just collateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 See this is the thing. I don't care about Cohle's ubermensch status. It actually entirely ruins his character for me that he has this one human flaw remaining... the whole point of his character, to me, is that though he has this really intensely dark and depressing philosophy, Cohle reacts to it with intentions of doing good - his nihilistic viewpoint informs his pillar of justice complex... He's like the batman of True Detective, for fuck sakes... And now corruptible. Ah, I meant his incorruptibility was part of his ubermensch status. I think Cohle is the "fiction suit" for many of us - anti-religious but more honorable than the faithful. But Cohle is also arrogant and really, really broken. I mean Batman impregnates Talia Al Ghul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Act 3 is really about testing Cohle's character. First test, sex with Maggie, he fails by giving in to temptation. Second test, killing Tuttle, he will fail by giving in to temptation to kill him. Third time, perhaps he succeeds whatever tests him? The episode was the conclusion of Act II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I mean Batman impregnates Talia Al Ghul... I did not know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I did not know this. This happened in a 1987 comic book. Don't spoilerrage, it's pretty common knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I wasn't commenting on the spoiler, pb, no worries. Sci's argument silenced :). Trisk, those are good articles. I will note that I think it's fairly obvious that Beth is a plant by the "Powers That Be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Slate's TV critic talks about the show's treatment of its female characters here. ETA: lol @ "McConaissance" I just want to know why a show has to treat it's female characters well? If the show isn't focused on the female characters and everything in the show is well done, then why does it matter if the female characters are given the short stick? I think the criticism is valid if looking at that specific point in a vacuum but I don't agree with the feeling that the show has to treat them in any specific way in order for it to be a great show. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If the women in this show aren't treated poorly, we have no show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I just want to know why a show has to treat it's female characters well? If the show isn't focused on the female characters and everything in the show is well done, then why does it matter if the female characters are given the short stick? I think the criticism is valid if looking at that specific point in a vacuum but I don't agree with the feeling that the show has to treat them in any specific way in order for it to be a great show. :dunno: It's just unfortunate to have a show with two really strong, fleshed out male characters, and then all the women are reduced to victims and sex objects; it's lazy storytelling. However, I don't really agree with the Slate criticism, I think that Maggie is a pretty well developed character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 To be clear, Nussbaum doesn't call the show paper-thin. It calls the women in the show paper-thin. Which, honestly, seems like a perfectly fair criticism to me. She also doesn't call the sex scene between Rust and Maggie titillating; she acknowledges that it's filmed to be "gasp-worthy" - and her criticism is that Maggie's character is so thin. I think there are two criticisms here that are inelegantly wound together. 1. Is that the women are all paper-thin as characters. This might be a side effect of what critics like Alan Sepinwall have observed, which is that there are only two real characters on the show - and those are Rust and Marty. Everyone else is a caricature. I actually disagree with that somewhat. Although the show doesn't have much room for other characters, I think Shea Whigham's preacher has, over the two scenes we've seen him in, developed more of a personality than Maggie even though she's been in every episode. 2. That the portrayal of the women on the show is problematic in its own right, apart from their two-dimensionality. They're either victims or objects of overt titillation. This is my biggest issue with the show - the female characters are basically staging. Maggie could have been fleshed out to be more than the typical put-upon wife and mother. Instead, she's reduced to a series of cliches, including the use of Rust as her break from Marty, although that's the most interesting thing we've seen her do. The Marty/Beth scene was basically porn. I was really disappointed - as has been pointed out, it should have shown Marty as the middle-age guy trying to escape his suburban, average life with a former prostitute (who looks like a normal woman and not a porn actress) and instead we're given a red-hot visual that just didn't feel like it fit with the rest of the show. And why are all these young hot women interested in middle-aged Marty? I don't get it. Gotta disagree. Cohle is weak and contradictory and often a dick as much as he's a man of integrity and hungry for Justice. Making him resist would build up the idea of Cohle as some kind of ubermensch speaking supposed truths to power. Cohle in his personal life is flawed, and abrasive. Cohle as a detective is almost flawless. It's when he's having to deal with personalities and politics that he shows how flawed he is. I wasn't commenting on the spoiler, pb, no worries. Sci's argument silenced :). Trisk, those are good articles. I will note that I think it's fairly obvious that Beth is a plant by the "Powers That Be." I don't disagree that Beth is quite possibly a plant, but wouldn't it be Cohle who would make the better target, rather than Marty? Marty is pretty clueless about things, and let's face it - he really does need to stick to typing reports and let Cohle do the heavy-lifting. Also, how did the 'powers that be' know that Marty would be heading to the T-Mobile store? Is his house bugged? That seems a little bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It's just unfortunate to have a show with two really strong, fleshed out male characters, and then all the women are reduced to victims and sex objects; it's lazy storytelling. However, I don't really agree with the Slate criticism, I think that Maggie is a pretty well developed character. I don't think it's lazy storytelling at all. Nothing about this show feels lazy. I think it was a conscious choice to focus on the two male lead characters and how everyone reacts to them or shapes them. Just not seeing where they'd fit in this strong, fleshed out, modern female character in a show about two differently tortured male detectives investigating a potential cult of rapists and murderers of women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt b Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I recently watched Top of the Lake (which is on NetFlix for those who want to check it out) and it's been quite interesting watching it back to back with True Detective. Both are smart detective shows, one from a decidedly male perspective, the other decidedly female. Worth checking out. ETA: hit send too early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I don't disagree that Beth is quite possibly a plant, but wouldn't it be Cohle who would make the better target, rather than Marty? Marty is pretty clueless about things, and let's face it - he really does need to stick to typing reports and let Cohle do the heavy-lifting. Also, how did the 'powers that be' know that Marty would be heading to the T-Mobile store? Is his house bugged? That seems a little bit of a stretch. Lol - before tonight's episode I would have said that Cohle is not the better target but [as] he'd be sexually incorruptible... but fail. However to the bold, in my mind, no. Beth seducing Marty is actually the crux in events that leads Marty to not support Cohle [and, thus, gets Cohle suspended]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I will note that I think it's fairly obvious that Beth is a plant by the "Powers That Be." Uhh? Why would the "powers that be" need to resort to this? They never seem to have any trouble finding out what Cohle is doing through their police department connections. Plus, what is Hart going to know? And why would they think that Beth is going to be able to extract something useful out of Hart (har har, get your mind out of the gutter) without raising suspicions? This isn't a spy show, that would be a really weird twist. Unless, by powers that be, you mean Ginger? Think about it. Beth is a plant. Ginger is a plant. It all fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I recently watched Top of the Lake (which is on NetFlix for those who want to check it out) and it's been quite interesting watching it back to back with True Detective. Both are smart detective shows, one from a decidedly male perspective, the other decidedly female. Worth checking out. ETA: hit send too early Top of the Lake is a great series, and aside from the main police character being a woman, has a number of other secondary female characters with actual personalities and with their own agency. Even, amazingly, the victim, who manages to drive the entire plot, not merely by her status as victim, but by the way she responds to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Lol - before tonight's episode I would have said that Cohle is not the better target but [as] he'd be sexually incorruptible... but fail. However to the bold, in my mind, no. Beth seducing Marty is actually the crux in events that leads Marty to not support Cohle [and, thus, gets Cohle suspended]. Can you elaborate on this? I actually did wonder if Beth was taken in by the cult but I figured it was too implausible. Though if there's only one or two phone stores in their town I guess it isn't too much of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Uhh? Why would the "powers that be" need to resort to this? They never seem to have any trouble finding out what Cohle is doing through their police department connections. Plus, what is Hart going to know? And why would they think that Beth is going to be able to extract something useful out of Hart (har har, get your mind out of the gutter) without raising suspicions? This isn't a spy show, that would be a really weird twist. Unless, by powers that be, you mean Ginger? Think about it. Beth is a plant. Ginger is a plant. It all fits. We have hit 100% wish fulfillment if you think that Beth would approach and seduce a random old cop who gave her a hundred bucks seven years before... because she wants to...? EDIT: Sorry, Sci. It seems to me that if Hart hadn't been in that place with Beth and Maggie, he might actually have supported Cohle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So the show has been getting the same criticism that our old friend has, hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Not enough of it, by my standards, Ruiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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