unSonofStannis Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If its true that Roose is not a man to be "undone" how do you think he will win the Battle of Ice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winter-ish Stuff Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If by Battle of Ice, you mean to say that it's the upcoming battle in Winds of Winter, I don't think he is going to win. I think, now that Arya (Jeyne Poole) is not in their hands I think her identity is revealed and the Northern lords begrudgingly offering their support to Roose, abandon him and join Stannis (Manderlys, Cerwyns, Hornwoods). Doubtful that the Dustins and Ryswells turn on the Boltons just because Roose's first wife was a Ryswell and Lady Dustin hates the Starks. The Umbers are the tossup here because the Greatjon is being held hostage at the Twins. But I can think of no greater person to rally the Northern Lords around Rickon Stark as the new King in the North (I think Bran is part of greater plans) than the Greatjon. So I believe the downfall of Houses Bolton and Frey begin with the loss at the Battle of Ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 He won't. His character is way overrated on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 He won't win, I am sure of this, but I don't want him to die either. He is way to interesting a character, Ramsay however can well die in the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 He flees. Roose has NEVER won a battle without treachery. He has also always given himself an escape route to make sure somebody else gets the fall. So, if he thinks he is no longer safe in Winterfell, he will "head out to face the enemy," leave behind some poisoned foodstuffs, and head off to the dreadfort before anyone realizes a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Martin's nihilistic angle with regards to Roose's personality in Dance was a mistake, in my view. It suddenly made Roose seem less like an evil mastermind, and more like a "I don't really care if my House dies" type of madman. It lessened him as a villain, in my view. His resigned attitude to leaving House Bolton to Ramsay with his undeniable unfitness to rule, and his almost resigned acceptance of Ramsay killing off his future trueborn sons made him contrast sharply with Tywin whose planning focused much more on the future glory of his House. Roose now seems more like a mad gambler who threw the dice, and if it doesn't pay off, "Oh well, then I guess I'll die and my House with me. No big deal." It certainly lessened him as a villain, in my book. I'm hoping that was merely an act, and that he has a much deeper and more intricate plot in the background waiting to unfold once the inevitability of Ramsay's defeat arrives. Else the Starks were really brought low by an utter idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unSonofStannis Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Martin's nihilistic angle with regards to Roose's personality in Dance was a mistake, in my view. It suddenly made Roose seem less like an evil mastermind, and more like a "I don't really care if my House dies" type of madman. It lessened him as a villain, in my view. His resigned attitude to leaving House Bolton to Ramsay with his undeniable unfitness to rule, and his almost resigned acceptance of Ramsay killing off his future trueborn sons made him contrast sharply with Tywin whose planning focused much more on the future glory of his House. Roose now seems more like a mad gambler who threw the dice, and if it doesn't pay off, "Oh well, then I guess I'll die and my House with me. No big deal." It certainly lessened him as a villain, in my book. I'm hoping that was merely an act, and that he has a much deeper and more intricate plot in the background waiting to unfold once the inevitability of Ramsay's defeat arrives. Else the Starks were really brought low by an utter idiot. I agree, it was all an act because he talking to Theon when he said all that and he assumed that Theon was Ramsays creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disputatious Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 It lessened him as a villain, in my view. His resigned attitude to leaving House Bolton to Ramsay with his undeniable unfitness to rule, and his almost resigned acceptance of Ramsay killing off his future trueborn sons made him contrast sharply with Tywin whose planning focused much more on the future glory of his House. . I'm hoping that was merely an act, and that he has a much deeper and more intricate plot in the background waiting to unfold once the inevitability of Ramsay's defeat arrives. The second bit is surely correct. What Roose told Theon was meant to reach Ramsey's ears, to lull him against the day Roose needs to take Ramsey out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Eddison Tollet Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This is the exact problem i had with the futures that were hyped from the northern conspiracy. They all seem to see every other northern lord as thinking and acting while they assume Bolton will stay put. Roose Bolton is probably the smartest man in Westeros save Eddison Tollet and Littlefinger, and he knows very well the North has not forgotten. He also notices all the little meetings and partings of the Lords. Roose will act. And his act, since nobody expects it will be decisive and game changing. Free Northman raises an interesting point, but atleast I have never seen nihilism expressed in GRRM's writing. Throughout the story he seems to keep on saying how even the tiny peasant has his needs and greeds. There is no one in Westeros who does not hope and does not take opportunities when he sees them. About succession, i don't know. I don't think Roose would particularly care what happened to the Dreadfort after him. Remember he is not a Tywin, simply cares for himself first. And he is trying to put Ramsay out of the way. Sending your only son into the Northern snows to fight a large host with two bannerman waiting to rip out each other's throats isn't my idea of fatherly love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 My best guess is that Roose is going to pin everything on the bastard blood of Ramsay. But frankly, once the Greatjon and other survivors from the Twins rock up at Winterfell, nothing is going to save him from the fact that he was the one who stabbed Robb Stark in the chest. There is no way out for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Roose will escape, leave the others to their fate, and hide in his castle, also kind related to his thread, I think Ramsay wrote the letter, and made an educated guess, He may be cruel and evil, but he's not stupid, I think the battle has yet to happen because Arnolf was found out, and awating execution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DormeDwayne Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Martin's nihilistic angle with regards to Roose's personality in Dance was a mistake, in my view. It suddenly made Roose seem less like an evil mastermind, and more like a "I don't really care if my House dies" type of madman. [...] I'm hoping that was merely an act, and that he has a much deeper and more intricate plot in the background waiting to unfold once the inevitability of Ramsay's defeat arrives. Hm, that's a view I haven't thought of, but I see how it would make sense. I read Bolton in aDwD as a pragmatic, a villain who does not care so much about the prestige of his House, but for his own prestige and survival. In my book that maybe made him even *more* of a villain than Tywin who acts for the good of his family, allegedly. IMO he still would like House Bolton to come out on top, if possible, even if his first priority is his own well-being. He believes Ramsay to be his son no less than Domeric or the baby Lady Walda is carrying, so why *should* he care about Ramsay killing them? He doesn't strike me as the sort of man who cares very much about his wives/the mothers of his children besides their dowries and connections. As long as his son follows after him and this son is capable of upholding the values of House Bolton, why should it matter what happens to the other children (only if you're a cold-hearted swine like him, of course, otherwise it matters very much :) ). I definitely agree with the second part - I hope (and believe) there's a plan we don't know of and that there's more to him than being a madman. I don't, however, see Roose as the mastermind he's sometimes portrayed as in the forums. He's good, yes, but nothing extraordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hm, that's a view I haven't thought of, but I see how it would make sense. I read Bolton in aDwD as a pragmatic, a villain who does not care so much about the prestige of his House, but for his own prestige and survival. In my book that maybe made him even *more* of a villain than Tywin who acts for the good of his family, allegedly. IMO he still would like House Bolton to come out on top, if possible, even if his first priority is his own well-being. He believes Ramsay to be his son no less than Domeric or the baby Lady Walda is carrying, so why *should* he care about Ramsay killing them? He doesn't strike me as the sort of man who cares very much about his wives/the mothers of his children besides their dowries and connections. As long as his son follows after him and this son is capable of upholding the values of House Bolton, why should it matter what happens to the other children (only if you're a cold-hearted swine like him, of course, otherwise it matters very much :) ). I definitely agree with the second part - I hope (and believe) there's a plan we don't know of and that there's more to him than being a madman. I don't, however, see Roose as the mastermind he's sometimes portrayed as in the forums. He's good, yes, but nothing extraordinary. I guess my complaint can be better summarized by saying that it lessens your satisfaction if you finally get to kill the bad guy and his response is a rather casual;" Oh well, you got me. That's too bad." As opposed to a villain who cares more about the outcome, and whose defeat is therefore all the more satisfactory for the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Tywin's longterm plans for the glory of his house haven't really shown up that well against Roose's nihilism so far, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DormeDwayne Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Tywin's longterm plans for the glory of his house haven't really shown up that well against Roose's nihilism so far, though... :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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