Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Sandor Clegane? He's dead for all we know, isn't he? There is a theory he is the gravedigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have a suspicion that the scene where LF stumbled drunkenly into bed with Lysa Tully when he was a teenager at Riverrun will repeat itself, only with Sansa. I could imagine almost any reaction from Sansa at that point, anywhere from fighting back and fleeing, maybe even killing LF in the process, to becoming an emotionally broken victim. How she reacts in that scene will be the defining moment for her whole character arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have a suspicion that the scene where LF stumbled drunkenly into bed with Lysa Tully when he was a teenager at Riverrun will repeat itself, only with Sansa. I could imagine almost any reaction from Sansa at that point, anywhere from fighting back and fleeing, maybe even killing LF in the process, to becoming an emotionally broken victim. How she reacts in that scene will be the defining moment for her whole character arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have a suspicion that the scene where LF stumbled drunkenly into bed with Lysa Tully when he was a teenager at Riverrun will repeat itself, only with Sansa. I could imagine almost any reaction from Sansa at that point, anywhere from fighting back and fleeing, maybe even killing LF in the process, to becoming an emotionally broken victim. How she reacts in that scene will be the defining moment for her whole character arc. I can't say that I share your suspicions, because it may or may not contradict Sansa's arc, but... I do have suspicion that you have made a double post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Unfortunately for us 'lemon-cakes,' the event in which Sansa falls for Petyr isn't impossible. Or possibly, has already happened... I must be Alayne all the time, inside and out. And all that's left... He pulled her closer, caught her face between his hands, and kissed her on the lips for a long time. “Now that’s the sort of kiss that says welcome home. See that you do better next time.” “Yes, Father.” ...is the untidy act itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 commenting on her likeness with cately, touching her hair.... does not necessarily mean that somebody loves another person. Here I think it is a purely physical attraction. Even if he wanted to incriminate her with the heirnet, that would also not be something you do to somebody you love. Just to somebody you want to use. He did not love her before the snowcastle. After the snowcastle things are different. Of course he kills Lysa first an schemes then, I did not mean it chronologically. But kissing Sansa in public and killing Lysa makes no sense from a LF wants power perspective. It only makes sense if his goals have changed. So, yes she is his blind spot now and she will bring him down. I see it differently. I pointed out earlier the things that Littlefinger did (like touching her hair and trying to marry her) to show that his emotions toward Sansa have not undergone some kind of change. He desired Sansa from the first moment he saw her. I think the Littlefinger believes that he loved Catelyn and that he believes that he now loves Sansa. That's what makes him using her to deliver the poison to the wedding quite sick and twisted. The juxtaposition of those two contradictory things makes me think he doesn't really love Sansa, just like he didn't really love Catelyn. Not in a healthy way, that is. He just wants to possess them, because they are both representations of things that he is not, things that are unattainable for him. I don't think he is in love with Sansa. He seems unhealthy obsessed with her. Also, this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well, Sansa is already Petyr Baelish's largest and greatest victim. I think Sansa in the next novel is going to fully realize what a monster he really is and all he's done to her, her family, and Westeros as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 She knows that Lysa poisoned Jon Arryn, but that is all. I think that she will figure it out eventually given the time. She also knows that Lysa sent a letter to Cat, and all this is due to Littlefinger. With all the insanity that was going on, I doubt Sansa has given the letter any thought, but she soon will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Or possibly, has already happened... I must be Alayne all the time, inside and out. And all that's left... He pulled her closer, caught her face between his hands, and kissed her on the lips for a long time. “Now that’s the sort of kiss that says welcome home. See that you do better next time.” “Yes, Father.” ...is the untidy act itself. You do realize that 'Alayne' doesn't have the means to fight back? I'm not going to risk the thread by elaborating any further, but I'm sure were smart enough to interpret what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojosh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well Sansa is a beautiful by all accounts. Even Tyrion(while in his shae delusion) lusted after her when he really looked at her. Imagine how it is for Littlefinger with his Cat complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think that's his plan but I don't think he'll succeed. I've got this idea that he knows about Aegon and plans to marry Sansa to him, then after she gets pregnant conveniently bump off her husband and marry her himself, thus taking over the kingdom as regent and raising the next king or queen as his own child. He gets the IT in a sense, and Cat 2.0. Thing is, I figure Sansa will stand up to him and refuse to play along, at which point he'll decide to kill her and she gets saved either by Sandor or Arya.No way LF will hand over his protege to Varys, and vice versa. Sansa wouldn't want this either. In order to get Sansa to go along with him, Littlefinger has promised her "home". King's Landing is the last place she wants to go, and will make Sansa resist him. Harry the Heir makes sure that Sansa returns to Winterfell, Aegon certainly doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Baelish is no angel but at least he's never come close to raping her. Sandor even regrets NOT raping her later on.You mistake not raping her with the severe desire not to rape her. I think every time LF sees her, he struggles with this. I think her maidenhead is the only thing keeping himself from doing so. If Tyrion screwed Sansa, I think she would have been raped by now.I mean, sure he had a thing for her mother but he seems to see Sansa as her own person, not JUST as Cat 2.0.I really don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think a lot more people than that know at least something of LF's betrayal of Ned. Besides the principal players, there were over a hundred Gold Cloaks in the throne room that day (all of whom knew what would happen and what LF's real orders were.) Besides them, there were also numerous servants and flunkies there - all of whom would have seen LF standing at Ned's side, then grabbing his dagger and holding it to his throat while saying "I warned you not to trust me." Such a dramatic scene would have been food for gossip in the Red Keep and eventually all over KL. The only reason Sansa didn't know about it while she was there was because no one was allowed to talk to her at all. So now that she's freer to listen to gossip, there's far more chance that someone will drop that scandalous tidbit about the Lord Protector of the Vale in Sansa's hearing - maybe some lord or lady whispering in admiration or disgust about LF's slyness, maybe Myranda Royce herself, that supreme purveyor of gossip. The question is, what will Sansa do with that information once she gets it?I don't know why any of the Gold Cloaks outside of Slynt had to know this. Sure he stuck a knife at his throat, but it could be determined from afar that he used this to take Ned alive and without protest. Tyrion himself doesn't even seem to know, and seems to think it was all Janos Slynt's doings to get in the Queen's favor and become a Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I don't think he is in love with Sansa. He seems unhealthy obsessed with her. Yep. Littlefinger does not understand the concept of love. He understands obsession and he mistakes that with love. Littlefinger wouldn't sacrifice himself for anything or anyone, or really do anything for anyone unless it directly benefits himself in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You do realize that 'Alayne' doesn't have the means to fight back? Alayne's means to resist require only that she enunciate the three sibilant syllables of her true name. Lord Yohn ... He will know me. How could he not? She considered throwing herself at his feet to beg for his protection. Or, as Tyrion puts it... “There has never been a slave who did not choose to be a slave. Their choice may be between bondage and death, but the choice is always there.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I see it differently. I pointed out earlier the things that Littlefinger did (like touching her hair and trying to marry her) to show that his emotions toward Sansa have not undergone some kind of change. He desired Sansa from the first moment he saw her. I think the Littlefinger believes that he loved Catelyn and that he believes that he now loves Sansa. That's what makes him using her to deliver the poison to the wedding quite sick and twisted. The juxtaposition of those two contradictory things makes me think he doesn't really love Sansa, just like he didn't really love Catelyn. Not in a healthy way, that is. He just wants to possess them, because they are both representations of things that he is not, things that are unattainable for him. Also, this. I agree with you, he desired her right from the start, that is what I meant by physical attraction. But love is something different. All the characters in these books undergo changes throughout the books: F.e. little arya who stiched in winterfell would not have been able to kill the guard in Harrenhall in cold blood. The Arya who kills the singer in Braavos however would have killed Joffrey at the trident after he attacked her friend Mycah instead of throwing his sword into the river if she had been in that situation. Jamie throws Bran from a window. Do you believe that the Jamie who comes back to KL after losinng his hand would do the same? The characters are changed by their experiences. The same is true for LF. I believe he did love Catelyn. How else do you explain the duell for her hand? This action makes no sense if he had already been cold and calculating back then. Later, in Kings landing he is the cold player. The "Juxtaposition" of these actions is easily solved, if we accept that LF like all the other major characters goes through a development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I prefer SanSan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Alayne's means to resist require only that she enunciate the three sibilant syllables of her true name. Lord Yohn ... He will know me. How could he not? She considered throwing herself at his feet to beg for his protection. Or, as Tyrion puts it... “There has never been a slave who did not choose to be a slave. Their choice may be between bondage and death, but the choice is always there.” He may know her but she doesn't know him well enough to trust him. She has put her trust in the wrong people before, one can not fault her for being cautious. And to Tyrions quote: it is not really a choice it is a dilemma. I agree with another Locust in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 He may know her but she doesn't know him well enough to trust him. She has put her trust in the wrong people before, one can not fault her for being cautious. And to Tyrions quote: it is not really a choice it is a dilemma. I agree with another Locust in this. ^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 She also knows that Lysa sent a letter to Cat, and all this is due to Littlefinger. With all the insanity that was going on, I doubt Sansa has given the letter any thought, but she soon will. Plus let's add the fact she is completely fed up with arranged marriages and that he told her he intends to kill her cousin off. I don't think it is a coincidence that her last chapter ended before we got her reaction and thoughts on his scheme. It wouldn't surprise me her first chapter in TWOW starts with her starting to fight off Littlefinger and be set to protect her cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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