Horza Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 According to Tass the Deputy Speaker of the Ukrainian parliament just proposed revoking the agreement securing Russian bases in the Crimea. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 According to Tass the Deputy Speaker of the Ukrainian parliament just proposed revoking the agreement securing Russian bases in the Crimea. Yikes.Do they want war? Or to get rid of Crimea? Otherwise they would have to be insane to do this. Russia currently has very little incentive to invade. It's much more rational to just sit there and watch as this revolution takes the usual route of revolutions by diverse coalitions members of which have little in common beyond hatred of the existing government. However, I just don't see Russia giving up their Black Sea Fleet base in Sevastopol. I think if it came to that, they would take all of Crimea rather than lose that base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Do they want war? Or to get rid of Crimea? Otherwise they would have to be insane to do this. Russia currently has very little incentive to invade. It's much more rational to just sit there and watch as this revolution takes the usual route of revolutions by diverse coalitions members of which have little in common beyond hatred of the existing government. However, I just don't see Russia giving up their Black Sea Fleet base in Sevastopol. I think if it came to that, they would take all of Crimea rather than lose that base. It might just be one senior Kievan legislator letting off steam, but even then it's an incredibly provocative statement to make when Russian forces have practically sealed off Crimea. There's no way to evict Russia short of war, so even if the government in Kiev were to follow through with the threat to revoke the deal it just puts them in an intractably hostile position vis a vis Russia with no effective means of backing up. This is verging on Georgian-level stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It might just be one senior Kievan legislator letting off steam, but even then it's an incredibly provocative statement to make when Russian forces have practically sealed off Crimea. There's no way to evict Russia short of war, so even if the government in Kiev were to follow through with the threat to revoke the deal it just puts them in an intractably hostile position vis a vis Russia with no effective means of backing up. This is verging on Georgian-level stupidity. A spokesman for the Black Sea Fleet has said that they have not ventured anywheres outside their base. A reporter for the CBC has stated that their is no insignia on any of the armed men they have seen at the airports, although the suspicion is that they are Russian troops. Russia, from what I have read, has not denied or affirmed anything, although they keep saying they will respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsox Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 RFE/RL wants us to know: Split? What split? Anyone can tell you the "Ukrainian" spoken around Kharkiv has little in common with what you'd find in Lviv. I especially like the part where they mention that people have "expressed loyalty to Ukraine and not Russia" as if that kind of binary statement means anything outside Crimea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 A spokesman for the Black Sea Fleet has said that they have not ventured anywheres outside their base. A reporter for the CBC has stated that their is no insignia on any of the armed men they have seen at the airports, although the suspicion is that they are Russian troops. Russia, from what I have read, has not denied or affirmed anything, although they keep saying they will respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Russian troops have moved into Crimea in what Moscow is calling a mission to “protect Black Sea Fleet’s positions” but which the Ukrainian government has denounced as an “armed intervention.” The Russian foreign ministry said Friday that it had informed the Ukrainian government that armoured units from the Black Sea Fleet base near Sevastopol had entered Crimea in order to protect fleet positions. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10668357/Russia-admits-that-it-has-moved-troops-in-Ukraine.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NQgWdoeZP8U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 19:55:In a televised address, Mr Turchynov said Moscow was trying to play out an "Abkhazian" plan, waiting for the Ukrainian side to react to provocations so that Moscow could annex Crimea. 19:58:Ukraine's acting leader also said that the "Ukrainian army is not responding" to the provocations in Crimea. from the BBC's live updater It does raise the question though, what sort of provocation would the Ukrainian army respond to? Could Russia just occupy the whole peninsula with nothing happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10668357/Russia-admits-that-it-has-moved-troops-in-Ukraine.html CBC has updated their report to include that tidbit as well. They're still not admitting that the armed men are theirs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosesskrift Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Working to avoid war is not only a good thing, but also the wisest choice available to the Ukrainian government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Putin pulled a tywin-in-riverlands. Only better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosesskrift Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I find the sort of cavalier attitude expounded by some in this thread towards actions that wilfully risks the lives of many innocent people to be disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hippie Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Obama will be making a statement in a matter of minutes - http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-makes-statement-13 also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Clxo-U3P8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 no one believes Obama's threat of consequences, Putin most of all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 no one believes Obama's threat of consequences, Putin most of allYou beat me to the punch! Obama needs to just shut up. If he's going to do something fine do it, but enough with these pathetic warnings already! It's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 no one believes Obama's threat of consequences, Putin most of all In this case I agree. We're not going to go to war with Russia, we're not going to put sanctions on Russia, we're not going to do anything to Russia except maybe fuck with a handful of peoples' visas. And even if Obama wanted to do something, Congress wouldn't let him; not to Russia. Harsh words need to be saved for when they can be backed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 According to CNN Russian tanks and helicopters have now been seen in Crimea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Not tanks. Self-propelled artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Just saw this on the BBC:http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26381454From the article:In Sevastopol, base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, a majority hold Russian passports.Under Russia's existing law, a neighbouring state would have to sign a treaty with Russia to allow part of its territory to become a new "subject" of the Russian Federation.But Mikhail Yemelyanov, deputy leader of A Just Russia, said the law had been drafted for peaceful times, and did not go far enough for situations where a state was falling apart."In conditions where a neighbouring state is disintegrating I don't think the Russian Federation should be restricted in its ability to accept a territory whose people have expressed a clear will and desire to be in Russia," he said.Unilateral annexation of another State's territory. Seems like a poor idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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