Benjen as coldhands

[Hattori]

Umm... have you ever told a kid a story?

Old Nan told Bran a scary story that ended you are the Night's King muuuhhhhahhh...

Bran the builder built the... the NK was the 13th LC.... we are currently on LC 998...

Is BR the 995th LC working for CH the 13th? or is it the other way around?

In the last few thousand years the Night's King never saw wights hiding under the snow?

If he did why did the tactic surprise him outside BR's cave?

Thousands of years of being dead and to Summer he still smells faintly of rot.

The NK is wearing newer clothes but does not pick them up as they become available.

Its a bit fishy I know, but there are some points that make me believe it so. When bran finds Coldhands and calls him a monster he replies "Your monster, Brandon Stark". What if that is a double entendre? Anyways going a bit ahead, when Bran has the weirwoods visions, the last one, and the oldest is a man being sacrificed to the tree by havig his neck sliced. If you notice in that scene, there is a reversal of characters, which ends with Bran on the tree being the Brandon on the floor tasting his own blood.Also, Coldhands voice rattles, like he has something interfering with his voice. Crazy theories, I know, but I just dont see Coldhands being Benjen

[AlliYoyo]

Commonly accepted fact: The others have not been seen for 8000 years,

Not including the possibility of error is omission rather than speculation. However the amount of exaggerated times is speculation. So my omission was an omission of speculation,

To be inclusive 8000 years with the possibility of some undetermined error on the dates

Commonly accepted fact: The link between Others and wilding practices is established

The practices being linked to threat rather than tradition are speculation.There is no textual evidence of the wilding practice of cremation being abandoned and reinstated or the causes of the abandonment or reinstatment. To suggest that the speculative change in practices suggests anything is merely an extended guess.

The others have not been seen or heard of south of the Wall for 8000 years. That may not be so beyond the Wall. Yes, that is conjecture. However, look at Craster's Keep. Craster lived there with his daughter/wives of all ages. No sons. Jon finds out that Craster sacrifices his sons to the Others, and when he tells Mormont, the Old Bear already knows. He said that all the Rangers knew, but few talked of it. Mormont called it his sacrifices, and that the Wildlings serve crueler gods that "you or I" (given that he was talking to Jon at the time, I would say he was referring to the Seven and/or Old Gods*). The fact that there are no boys at all at Craster's would seem to indicate that he had been sacrificing his sons to the Others for a lot longer than the 3 (or less) that you are talking about the Others have returned. If so, that would make the dichotomy of 8000 years or <3 years misleading. It would mean that at the very least the Others had been stirring for a lot longer than the <3 years since the start of the books or, IMO more likely, they had been stirring all along, but it wasn't until the magic coming back into the world that they became stronger.**

*Mormont's comment of "You or I" would seem to indicate that he and Jon serve different gods. We know that Jon follows the Old Gods like his family before him. But given that Mormont is from Bear Island, which is in the North, and indeed, the Mormonts are bannermen (or bannerwomen) to the Starks, wouldn't that mean that Mormont would also follow the Old Gods and not the Seven? Off-topic, but that just occured to me.

**While I think that the Others becoming stronger coincides with the return of magic, magic is said to have come back with the birth of the dragons. But the Others were obviously active before that, since we are introduced to them in the prologue of AGoT, and the dragons were born at the end of that book.

Just saying CH passed up every opportunity to get new clothes from the traitors at craster's keep.

Covers his face and does not call Bran what his uncle called him....humm maybe he does not want Bran to think it is his uncle.

Calling him Bran, would be the masked man telling bran who he was.... who follows what and what a man in a mask is is a man that does not want to be identified..

Not necessarily. CH calling Bran by name indicates that he was waiting for Bran. That would be the case using the familiar form of his name as well as the formal. And the use of "Brandon Stark" is not an indication of CH hiding his identity. It's a formality.

[stateofdissipation]

The others have not been seen or heard of south of the Wall for 8000 years. That may not be so beyond the Wall. Yes, that is conjecture. However, look at Craster's Keep. Craster lived there with his daughter/wives of all ages. No sons. Jon finds out that Craster sacrifices his sons to the Others, and when he tells Mormont, the Old Bear already knows. He said that all the Rangers knew, but few talked of it. Mormont called it his sacrifices, and that the Wildlings serve crueler gods that "you or I" (given that he was talking to Jon at the time, I would say he was referring to the Seven and/or Old Gods*). The fact that there are no boys at all at Craster's would seem to indicate that he had been sacrificing his sons to the Others for a lot longer than the 3 (or less) that you are talking about the Others have returned. If so, that would make the dichotomy of 8000 years or <3 years misleading. It would mean that at the very least the Others had been stirring for a lot longer than the <3 years since the start of the books or, IMO more likely, they had been stirring all along, but it wasn't until the magic coming back into the world that they became stronger.**

*Mormont's comment of "You or I" would seem to indicate that he and Jon serve different gods. We know that Jon follows the Old Gods like his family before him. But given that Mormont is from Bear Island, which is in the North, and indeed, the Mormonts are bannermen (or bannerwomen) to the Starks, wouldn't that mean that Mormont would also follow the Old Gods and not the Seven? Off-topic, but that just occured to me.

**While I think that the Others becoming stronger coincides with the return of magic, magic is said to have come back with the birth of the dragons. But the Others were obviously active before that, since we are introduced to them in the prologue of AGoT, and the dragons were born at the end of that book.

Not necessarily. CH calling Bran by name indicates that he was waiting for Bran. That would be the case using the familiar form of his name as well as the formal. And the use of "Brandon Stark" is not an indication of CH hiding his identity. It's a formality.

I base less than 3 or thousands of years dichotomy on the NW reaction. 3 Missing send 5.. 5 more missing send 300.

If brothers went missing north of the wall pretty regularly, why was the great ranging conducted as the largest ranging in living memory?

It would seem a dramatic overreaction to a common thing.

....

in the end it is not conclusive of anything but really should not be ignored.

Which gods does Jorah follow? most but not all of the north still follows the old gods.

I did not mean to assert that the others were not there... just not in contact with the NW enough to snag a wight or 2 without anybody noticing,

If you wore a mask to see a family member, would you call them by their nicknames.

Interesting side note Leaf calls him Bran...and BR does as well if memory serves.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Just saying CH passed up every opportunity to get new clothes from the traitors at craster's keep.

Covers his face and does not call Bran what his uncle called him....humm maybe he does not want Bran to think it is his uncle.

Calling him Bran, would be the masked man telling bran who he was.... who follows what and what a man in a mask is is a man that does not want to be identified..

Well the clothes he's got are in pretty good shape at the moment. Better than BR's anyway. So maybe he only gets new clothes when he feels he needs them? I doubt he's got much closet space to keep extras.

[stateofdissipation]

Well the clothes he's got are in pretty good shape at the moment. Better than BR's anyway. So maybe he only gets new clothes when he feels he needs them? I doubt he's got much closet space to keep extras.

His clothes are not exactly tip top at the moment. He passed up lots of chaces for basically new gear from the traitors at Crasters. Just saying how often is he likely to come across new undamaged blacks while wandering around north of the wall? It would seem hard to pass up for somebody that has no access to new clothes and has needed to replace his a few times.

I mean does he wait till they fall off his corpse before deciding it is time for a new set?

[Ser Not Appearing]

Benjen As Coldhands:

"Oi, this winter sucks. My hands are so cold. Black like my cloak, they will still see us through. That which is dead may never die... I am the true Kraken."

*wink* *smile* *bow*

End scene.

[Moondancer]

Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?

A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer. The longhalls wooden door banged open. Outside, the night wind howled, bleak and black. The trees were full of ravens, screaming. Coldhands did not move.

A monster, Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. Your monster, Brandon Stark.

Yours, the raven echoed, from his shoulder.

They clearly are referring to BR, not CH. "your monster" = monster of your kind, like yourself, in your service, aid. Both BR and Bran are greenseers. To claim a greenseer a monster is to admit yourself as one.

[stateofdissipation]

Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?

A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer. The longhalls wooden door banged open. Outside, the night wind howled, bleak and black. The trees were full of ravens, screaming. Coldhands did not move.

A monster, Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. Your monster, Brandon Stark.

Yours, the raven echoed, from his shoulder.

They clearly are referring to BR, not CH. "your monster" = monster of your kind, like yourself, in your service, aid. Both BR and Bran are greenseers. To claim a greenseer a monster is to admit yourself as one,

I think if Bran had said "wolly mammoth" CH would have said, "your wolly mammoth Brandon Stark"

CH was trying to get across that BR was there for Bran... That Bran was his purpose.

[Prince of the North]

Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?

A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer. The longhalls wooden door banged open. Outside, the night wind howled, bleak and black. The trees were full of ravens, screaming. Coldhands did not move.

A monster, Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. Your monster, Brandon Stark.

Yours, the raven echoed, from his shoulder.

They clearly are referring to BR, not CH. "your monster" = monster of your kind, like yourself, in your service, aid. Both BR and Bran are greenseers. To claim a greenseer a monster is to admit yourself as one.

Yes, that, and I think CH was simply telling Bran that the reason BR has lingered this long and become this "monster" melded with a weirwood tree is because he was waiting for him. That's also why BR could be called Bran's "monster".