So Robb's alive and Jon now knows he's a Targ

[the conquoring bastard25]

In this scenario Robb is king of the North. Jon hasn't taken vows to the nights watch. Stannis or Renly hold the IT. The west is rid of the Lannisters and Theon holds the Rock.

The sponsorship of the Vale is in the hands of Sansa Stark as she's pushed LF out the Moon Door.

The Riverlands are under Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey.

In the South Storm's End and it's lands are lord less right now as one of the Baratheon brothers is dead. Mace is supporting whom ever is on the throne. Doran Martell is doing what he does best wait and watch.

Aegon and Dany with her dragons aren't a factor.

Rickon and Bran are alive living with Arya at Winterfell and the Frey Queen.

Cat's alive to receive that little piece of information about Jon and his true heritage.

House Frey is still a starch supporter of house Stark and Bolton is either alive or dead you choose.

Manderly has increased the Northern Fleet.

My question is does Robb support Jon's claim to the IT?

Who are their other ally's and why what do you offer them?

Who hold's the IT in your thoughts and how do they react to Jon and him pressing his claim.

What about the IB

Who leads each of their armies

How does the realm take this piece of news.

What about Lord Vary's whats his reaction?

Add any other details you like

Would Jon make a good king? Would he make his brother or cousin take off his crown? Would Robb do this willingly?

[Minsc]

No, Robb doesn't support his claim. Especially, in how none of his bannermen would support him pressing the issue. Also, Sansa wouldn't control the Vale in your scenario in how the Vale Lords would likely just send her home to her brother and mother.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Thats a whole lot of changing the story, but even if that were the sit, I find it highly unlikely that either Jon or Robb would want to start a war and gets tons of people killed, they aren't Catlyn, they think about things before they get tens of thousands of people killed. Robb less so than Jon obviously(killing Karstark, marrying Jeyne) but Jon would definitely not, Jon cares about people.

[The Santa of House Claus]

Are you thinking that Sansa has already married Harry the Heir? If so, she would be Lady of the Vale. But thats a little beside the point.

So Robb is King in the North and the Riverlands, you might even throw in the Vale, given its location and the fact that Sansa is married to its ruler. But no, I do not think Robb would support Jon's claim, more to the point, I doubt Jon would make a claim. Maybe in the spring, they may do something. Say if Renly/Stannis decide they do not like the fact that they only have "half the kingdom" and try to take back the Riverlands, the North, and the Vale. Then Jon's parentage could be reveled and he could be engaged to Margeary, if Stannis is on the thrown, for the support of the Reach, or Arianne if Renly is on the thrown, for the support of Dorne. But Robb and Jon would not go after the Iron Throne if the war was already settled.

But lets say it is spring, Stannis is on the Throne, because it is more likely he would want the whole kingdom back, with Renly he seemed willing to negotiate and make peace, I know he said that as long as Robb knelt to him as his King, but with the Vale also with Robb, and winter knocking on the door, I think Renly would have conceeded that point, allowed for 2 kingdoms, and wanted to make an alliance through marriage. Stannis though, he would not tolerate a King in the North. He would have been smart enough to wait through winter, for one, everyone's forces would be taxed. But then spring comes, Stannis starts back up, so Robb goes to war, and knowing Jon is Rhaegar's son, goes to war to put him on the throne as the rightful ruler.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

No, becuase their father fought and removed the Targaryens from power.

[The Santa of House Claus]

No, becuase their father fought and removed the Targaryens from power.

But is Stannis is already trying to fight to take back the whole realm, then what other choice would there be? knowing Jon's lineage Robb could not retaliate and take the whole kingdom. The Iron Throne is Jon's by rights, so they take westeros and split it. And Ned fought to remove Aerys because he was mad. I do not think Ned wanted to remove him because he was a Targaryen, but because his son kidnapped his sister and he, Aerys, brutally murdered his father and brother. It was Robert that loathed all Targaryen's everywhere.

[Ser Hippie]

In that scenario, Jon gets off his horse to feed Ghost, but trips and falls. A broken neck is tragically fatal in Westeros.

And no, Robb would have no reason to support a Targaryen claim to the throne. Not to mention the 'scenario' is the epitome of stacking the deck, basically picking and choosing plot points based on the conclusion you want people to reach.

[Boarsbane]

It kind of matters which Baratheon is on the throne, if Renly is king he and Robb can probably make peace and Robb and Jon will go home and forget about Jon's claim. If Stannis is King he is going to press the issue and attack Robb eventually, so Robb might press Jon's claim to see if it sways any support.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

But is Stannis is already trying to fight to take back the whole realm, then what other choice would there be? knowing Jon's lineage Robb could not retaliate and take the whole kingdom. The Iron Throne is Jon's by rights, so they take westeros and split it. And Ned fought to remove Aerys because he was mad. I do not think Ned wanted to remove him because he was a Targaryen, but because his son kidnapped his sister and he, Aerys, brutally murdered his father and brother. It was Robert that loathed all Targaryen's everywhere.

I never said he hated the Targaryens, but he did fight them during the rebellion, and accepted Robet's line as the new royal family. Also, the Iron Throne is not Jon's by right, and I highly doubt he'd make a claim.

He has a couple of choices. He can bend the knee, or be destroyed in the south. Or, he can abandon his Riverland allies, stay put in the North, and let Stannis/Renly come to him in his own territory. If Stannis/Renly is set on retaking the part of the kingdom that Robb holds, then they will probably take the Riverlands with ease. The Wetserland lords will not raise troops for an Ironborn or fight for a guy who pillaged their lands and took the Rock with no right. They are more likely to have Theon killed and sit this out. Vale lords probably wouldn't get involved, since it was the Lannisters they wanted to fight.

The real wildcards would be the Reach(if it's Stannis on the throne, or Dorne(if it's Renly on the throne).

[the conquoring bastard25]

I'm more inclined to think that the Stormlands and Dorne would be the wildcards.

They are held in name by one of the baratheon brothers yet they are leader less. Men tend to forget how rules them when left the their own devices too long.

The real swaying factor is Dorne. They have no reason to love house Baratheon. Nor do that have any reason to love house Stark. Expecially with Jon looking like a younger version of Eddard Stark.

I can't see Sansa leaving her brother with out help. Even if she still has the attidude that Jon's just her bastard brother, Robb is her brother and she loves him. So I can't see the Vale sitting by with Sansa helping rule the Vale. The Trident is a mess from the last 2 rounds of war. RR and the War of the five kings. Edmure is an idiot by all reasoning but he loves his small folk and is there true champion. I could see him calling his banner but only to hold and defend the Trident not to actual march with the Young Wolf and Dragon.

With Stannis being an immovable force he would never allow Jon or Robb to hold a crown in Westeros. So the most logical thing to do then is let Stannis come to the North. Let him taste alittle of the North. Renly is more sensible but... With Jon alive there are always those that would raise their banners to follow him because when men don't like the government the heir or a different claimant is always a contention point. See Mary queen of Scot, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mary of England, Jane Grey the 9 day queen. These women were all the heir to the throne and many attempts at rebellion was formulated in their names.

Theon in the west might be of help but as Jon and Theon never actually got along...that could spell disaster. Theon thinking Jon was raised as a bastard only to be raised to the highest peer in the realm. That might not bode well. Yet the friendship between Theon and Robb might help smooth any ruffled feathers.

[Minsc]

I'm more inclined to think that the Stormlands and Dorne would be the wildcards.

They are held in name by one of the baratheon brothers yet they are leader less. Men tend to forget how rules them when left the their own devices too long.

The real swaying factor is Dorne. They have no reason to love house Baratheon. Nor do that have any reason to love house Stark. Expecially with Jon looking like a younger version of Eddard Stark.

I can't see Sansa leaving her brother with out help. Even if she still has the attidude that Jon's just her bastard brother, Robb is her brother and she loves him. So I can't see the Vale sitting by with Sansa helping rule the Vale. The Trident is a mess from the last 2 rounds of war. RR and the War of the five kings. Edmure is an idiot by all reasoning but he loves his small folk and is there true champion. I could see him calling his banner but only to hold and defend the Trident not to actual march with the Young Wolf and Dragon.

The Storm Lands aren't going to betray the Baratheons for Jon Snow, Doran is not going to abandon his complete passive nature for Jon Snow, Sansa isn't going to rule the Vale as she will return to her family, The Greyjoys aren't going to fight to seat a Stark on the Iron Throne, and Edmure isn't going to be happy making his region a battlefield again.

Thus, it would be the North by themselves if they go that route and likely the Northern lords wouldn't be that up to fighting to seat Jon on the throne after they have achieved independence.

[The Santa of House Claus]

The Storm Lands aren't going to betray the Baratheons for Jon Snow, Doran is not going to abandon his complete passive nature for Jon Snow, Sansa isn't going to rule the Vale as she will return to her family, The Greyjoys aren't going to fight to seat a Stark on the Iron Throne, and Edmure isn't going to be happy making his region a battlefield again.

Thus, it would be the North by themselves if they go that route and likely the Northern lords wouldn't be that up to fighting to seat Jon on the throne after they have achieved independence.

No the Stormlords would not abandon Stannis/Renly.

Doran would back Jon Snow, if they got something of it... Like a queen.

Sansa would not rule the Vale, but she would be married to the ruler of the Vale and therefore it's likely the Vale would back Robb, giving Robb The North, The Riverlands, The Vale, and Dorne, against the Storm Lands, Westerlands, The Reach, and the area that supports Kings Landing.

A battle would only happen if Stannis started it.

[the conquoring bastard25]

Never said they would betray house Baratheon for Jon snow. I said that they are a wild card because men that are left to long tend to for get who's the ruler and the ruled. Plus the stormlands have no love for Stannis Baratheon. THey only went over to Stannis because Renly was dead.

If Sansa is married to Harry the Heir then her place is by her husbands' side. Which would mean that she's in the Vale. Not at WF. Cat when she married she didn't stay and live at Riverrun after she married Ned. Or didn't stay at Riverrun after the war was over.

Theon as lord of the Rock now has the lords of the West at his command why does he need the IB? He's got more wealth and power without the IB

As to Edmure that's why I said he doesn't march he stays to hold the Trident. All the lord of the Trident hold their own lands. That's their only job. Hold the Trident.

Yet if it's stannis on the throne he won't have much choice. Stannis isn't going to allow Robb to continue to style himself as king in the north nor be willing to rule over a broken realm he tells cat as much. As Jon is with him and he has a stronger claim to the throne as he's the son of the male line of house Targ whereas Stannis is a Targ through his grandmother which means it's through the female line, which always comes after those born of the male line. Real world and in Westeros. That makes Jon a rival to his throne whether Jon wants the throne or not. Even if men say he's a pretender there will always be men that will wonder about the timing, Ned's rep and the contrast of him fathering a bastard add into the fact that Robert never made it a secret his hatred for the Targ family. There also the timing of Jon's birth and what not. So the whole rational about heir and other claims to the throne. Why did Mary of Scots lose her head again I forget

[Minsc]

No the Stormlords would not abandon Stannis/Renly.

Doran would back Jon Snow, if they got something of it... Like a queen.

Sansa would not rule the Vale, but she would be married to the ruler of the Vale and therefore it's likely the Vale would back Robb, giving Robb The North, The Riverlands, The Vale, and Dorne, against the Storm Lands, Westerlands, The Reach, and the area that supports Kings Landing.

A battle would only happen if Stannis started it.

Doran isn't going to start a war to seat Lyanna's child on the throne thus if anything he will wait for Dany and her dragons. Sansa would likely not be married to Robert Arryn, thus the Vale would have no reason to back Robb attacking the Baratheons.

[the conquoring bastard25]

Did you not read that little bit about Aegon and Dany not being a factor in this process. They aren't around avalible or whatever. Drogo ate dany in the Dothroki sea and Aegon drowned on his way to Westros.

[Minsc]

Never said they would betray house Baratheon for Jon snow. I said that they are a wild card because men that are left to long tend to for get who's the ruler and the ruled. Plus the stormlands have no love for Stannis Baratheon. THey only went over to Stannis because Renly was dead.

They aren't going to be a wild card if it is Baratheons vs. Jon Snow.

If Sansa is married to Harry the Heir then her place is by her husbands' side. Which would mean that she's in the Vale. Not at WF. Cat when she married she didn't stay and live at Riverrun after she married Ned. Or didn't stay at Riverrun after the war was over.

She isn't likely going to be married to Harry and Robert is still the Lord Paramount.

Theon as lord of the Rock now has the lords of the West at his command why does he need the IB? He's got more wealth and power without the IB

The lords of the West are hardly going to follow Theon, at best the Ironborn will have to keep a constant presence in CR to ensure their control. Moreover, Theon still likely wishes to claim his father's crown so he is going to care about the IB.

Honestly, as Ser Hippie said this scenario is a ridiculous stacking of the deck in the most unrealistic way to make it the most favorable for the North and Jon.

[the conquoring bastard25]

Call it what you will. I'm really starting to feel like you don't like Jon. How did he pee in your breakfast? Did he deflower your maiden daughter.

Fine if Theon is dealing with the West and IB one more enemy that either Stannis and Jon have to not deal with.

I was just curious mostly if people thought if Robb had lived if he would have supported his brother's claim to the throne.

[The Santa of House Claus]

Doran isn't going to start a war to seat Lyanna's child on the throne thus if anything he will wait for Dany and her dragons. Sansa would likely not be married to Robert Arryn, thus the Vale would have no reason to back Robb attacking the Baratheons.

Why is Sansa not going to marry Robert, at the moment she is betrothed to him. But you're right, she isn't going to marry him, because he is going to be killed by Little Finger, and Sansa will marry Harry the Heir and be the Lady if The Vale. And even if she didn't, the other Vale lords were clamoring to join in on the war on Robb's side the first go round. You have given no reason as to why Sansa will be back in Winterfell and the Vale staying neutral.

[Minsc]

Call it what you will. I'm really starting to feel like you don't like Jon.

While he isn't my favorite character(or close to it) I don't hate him. Instead, what I find annoying is fan fiction being used to set him up as be all and end all. Simply, this scenario you are setting up is ridiculous and utterly unlikely to occur.

I was just curious mostly if people thought if Robb had lived if he would have supported his brother's claim to the throne.

You can ask that without stacking the deck in favor of Jon.

[Minsc]

And even if she didn't, the other Vale lords were clamoring to join in on the war on Robb's side the first go round. You have given no reason as to why Sansa will be back in Winterfell and the Vale staying neutral.

They wanted vengeance on the Lannister for Jon Arryn, Ned, and Robert I doubt they are going to fight against Robert's brothers. Because Sansa herself wants to return to Winterfell and I am guessing her mother and siblings would like her to return home also.