Sins that don't get enough mention/hate on the forums

[Dany Girl]

There was nothing she could do for him. He crossed a line and there was no turning back. Look at how the Dothraki girl reacted when she was told to translate his words. He violated their version of Guest Right, threatened the khaleesi and her unborn child, insulted the khal... Didn't Dany have to preform all sorts of sexual tricks just to get Drogo to let Viserys out of the kart? I don't see how people think she could save him.

Personally I always crack up when people say she should have saved Visaerys. I don't care about anything that went on before or after that scene in this regard because he puts a f*ing sword to her pregnant belly and threatens her unborn child. Let me tell you, if someone did that to me while pregnant, I wouldn't give 2 fucks who they were, I'd want them dead! No one fucks with a mother's child, especially when still in the womb. Don't be surprised when mommy fights back. Even before then, Dany tries to talk him down. She offers him everything she can. He still threatens her life and her unborn child's life. Sorry, but that's the moment she just can't care about him anymore. She's a mother, her loyalty is to her child above all else.

She mourns him far more than I would mourn the person who tried to kill my kid. Mother, father, sister, wouldn't matter. Kid comes first.

So people are free to hate her for any number of things, but not saving the man that has repeatedly insulted, threatened, and abused her, and has now actively attempted to kill her child, should not be a reason to hate her.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Yes. You've signed your own death warrant, when you threaten a Khal's wife and unborn child in front of thousands of his warriors.

like Umber before Robb breaking the oath to his Lord and guest laws? Theres always a way out if you are smart enough.

[stateofdissipation]

Ned was sitting on what he knew until he had proof. You don't take such serious allegations about important people to the king until you have proof. That is how such things are done, because if you accuse the queen and her family of treason without proof you'll be called a slanderer and a traitor yourself.

How was he lying to her? If Viserys and Daenerys could stay alive in exile for so many years, why not Cersei and her incest babies, especially if she took Jaime and her household guard with her? He tells her to run away as far as she can go... I cannot identify a single moment in that scene when he lies to her.

Ahh the double secret probation of the Lannisters.... a very effective investigative tool. Well would not the dagger kind of break that probation. Was Ned attempting to protect the king and serve justice or was he thinking he was a detective.

Ned did not accuse the queen... Lysa did... so Ned concealed Lysa's treason.....oh wait she was the murderess as well... Great cover for a traitor and a murderess there Ned....

Ned thought.... Blah blah. None will survive. None of that changed. Yes he might have had reason to believe... sadly we are told what he did believe... and that was not what he told Cersei.. We are also told he was not sure if Robert would believe him.

I am giving you a chance to take the children and flee... LIE he gave her a chance to confess.

I am going to tell Robert as soon as he returns... DID NOT HAPPEN

Bran saw you in the tower... Bran remembered nothing.. LIE a guess passed off as a witness.

[complexphoenix]

Yes. You've signed your own death warrant, when you threaten a Khal's wife and unborn child in front of thousands of his warriors.

He drew steel in Vaes Dothrak. (I seem to remember he spilled a small amount of Dany's blood as well, although I could be remembering wrong and i don't have the book on hand.) That was the really, truly, absolutely unforgivable thing, the "violated their version of Guest Right" part.

[Knight Of Winter]

he feels Robert as his king should be informed about Lysas letter.

I know, but there's just so many wrong things with stateofdissipation's comment here:

- in her letter, Lysa doesn't ask Ned to cover it up. In fact, whole point of LF's plan (executed by Lysa) was to stir up trouble, not hush it down

- why should Ned mention it to Robert with no evidence whatsoever and reveal his hand so early?

- in the end, Lannisters weren't even responsible for Jon's death.

[Dany Girl]

like Umber before Robb breaking the oath to his Lord and guest laws? Theres always a way out if you are smart enough.

Umber was needed for Robb's victory. Visaerys actively attempted to kill her unborn child. Robb has motivation to keep Umber. Dany no longer has any motivation to save Visaerys. Dany's unborn child>>>>>>>>> Visaerys. Dany did what any mother would do, she protected her child. That's what she should do. Visaerys has repeatedly insulted, threatened, and abused her, now he's made an attempt on her child, why in the world would she want to protect him anymore? Her kid is vastly more important to her than her brother, as any mother would attest.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

I know, but there's just so many wrong things with stateofdissipation's comment here:

- in her letter, Lysa doesn't ask Ned to cover it up. In fact, whole point of LF's plan (executed by Lysa) was to stir up trouble, not hush it down

- why should Ned mention it to Robert with no evidence whatsoever and reveal his hand so early?

- in the end, Lannisters weren't even responsible for Jon's death.

agreed

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

like Umber before Robb breaking the oath to his Lord and guest laws? Theres always a way out if you are smart enough.

Yes, and she surely was not smart enough, but there was not enough malicious intent behind it to blame her. Simple as that. There are things about her that are much much worse.

[stateofdissipation]

agreed

Agreed Ned only covered up Lysa's treason and murder so he he could investigate the Lannisters he hated. So Ned is ok.

Ned had no reason to mention that he had reason to believe a man both he and Robert loved may have been murdered and that the custodian of his nephew said the Lannisters were behind it. If it was true, his inlaws killed Jon Arryn. If it was false his nephew was living with a crazy lady. But either way it is best to keep it a secret because LF wanted trouble.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Yes, and she surely was not smart enough, but there was not enough malicious intent behind it that to blame her. Simple as that. There are things about her that are much much worse.

ok ok....I can agree with this.

[SeanF]

like Umber before Robb breaking the oath to his Lord and guest laws? Theres always a way out if you are smart enough.

Robb can forgive a wrong done to him. Dany can't forgive a wrong done to the Khal. Drawing steel is a breaking a massive taboo. Threatening the wife of a Khal is just about the grossest wrong you can do him.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Robb can forgive a wrong done to him. Dany can't forgive a wrong done to the Khal. Drawing steel is a breaking a massive taboo. Threatening the wife of a Khal is just about the grossest wrong you can do him.

I belive Umbers and Viserys actions are equaly wrong. Robb cant pardon him, thats why his move is so smart. He gives Umber a way out.

[ghosts in winterfell]

Agreed Ned only covered up Lysa's treason and murder so he he could investigate the Lannisters he hated. So Ned is ok.

Ned had no reason to mention that he had reason to believe a man both he and Robert loved may have been murdered and that the custodian of his nephew said the Lannisters were behind it. If it was true, his inlaws killed Jon Arryn. If it was false his nephew was living with a crazy lady. But either way it is best to keep it a secret because LF wanted trouble.

What are you talking about? How was he supposed to know that she was the real culprit? He didn't mention it to Robert because he had no evidence that what Lysa said was true.

[Bea Noleto]

Ned's support of Robert' claim after he refused to punish accordingly Tywin for the murder of the "dragonspawn", and REWARDED him by marrying Cersei. He blames it all on the Lannisters, but whitewash the fact that Tywin only did that to appease Robert and it worked like a charm. I think he got a bit of those children's blood on his hands for this.

[stateofdissipation]

What are you talking about? How was he supposed to know that she was the real culprit? He didn't mention it to Robert because he had no evidence that what Lysa said was true.

Umm not saying he was supposed to know anything. He had evidence that if true implicated the Lannisters in the murder of a man both he and Robert loved and if false showed that his nephew who both he and Robert cared about should be removed from Lysa's care (she was either crazy, a traitor, or both). The truth of it or the lie of it makes no difference. Ned had no right to keep it secret.

[SeanF]

I belive Umbers and Viserys actions are equaly wrong. Robb cant pardon him, thats why his move is so smart. He gives Umber a way out.

The point is, that once Viserys drew steel on Dany, she couldn't give him a way out. It became Drogo's responsibility to punish or forgive him. Drogo had no intention of forgiving him. Even if he had been inclined to do so, he'd have suffered a huge loss of face among his men and the other Khals. So, Viserys was doomed.

[Warden of the Cheesy]

Ned's support of Robert' claim after he refused to punish accordingly Tywin for the murder of the "dragonspawn", and REWARDED him by marrying Cersei. He blames it all on the Lannisters, but whitewash the fact that Tywin only did that to appease Robert and it worked like a charm. I think he got a bit of those children's blood on his hands for this.

What else is he going to do? Robert was the only one left with any legitimate claim to the throne seeing as the Baratheons are a bastard line of the Targaryens. The Throne was secured, and no one left would straight up oppose them aside from maybe Dorne, but that's not nearly enough to defeat the Crownlands, the Vale, the Westerlands, Stormlands and the Reach. Ned was a fool in the world of politics, but he wasn't a fool in the world of warcraft.... (shut up, you know I don't mean the game =P)

[Queen of Whores]

Tyrion and Shae saying horrible and insensitive and disgusting things about Lollys after her rape, like Shae saying 'why is she even so upset, she was only fucked?' Paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it. I didn't care less that she died painfully, because of that comment.

Victarion burning the female whores, drowning the male whores, and killing the poor maester that was raped. Pretty much everything he does in ADwD.

Roose ordering a brutal and merciless sack at Duskendale for lulz, while claiming it was Robb's own orders. I like Roose somewhat, but this is his most vile act in my opinion.

[PrimeRhaegar]

Dorkstar tries to kill an little girl and fails.

Jon trying to kill throne oh yea.

Everything tyrion did in essos.

Cersei treatment of Tommen in feast.

Vic and everything thing he did on his way to mereen.

Oberyn poisoning lord yronwood despite the fact all they needed to do was cut each other (i love oberyn but seriously come on so unnecessary).

[Bea Noleto]

What else is he going to do? Robert was the only one left with any legitimate claim to the throne seeing as the Baratheons are a bastard line of the Targaryens. The Throne was secured, and no one left would straight up oppose them aside from maybe Dorne, but that's not nearly enough to defeat the Crownlands, the Vale, the Westerlands, Stormlands and the Reach. Ned was a fool in the world of politics, but he wasn't a fool in the world of warcraft.... (shut up, you know I don't mean the game =P)

It is mentioned that Ned could have taken the throne to himself. I don't know in what point in time he should have done that, but it was wrong to let the IT go to a child murderer.