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GRRM apparently confirms no TWOW this year


Leobald Tallhart

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Does anyone still think this is going to a seven book series? I see a possible eight or nine series. It depends on exactly how far TWOW takes the plot forward I guess but still...

At least this hopefully confirms we'll get TWOW before 2016, which was my original guess for a release date, but if it comes out 2015 oh dear! and 2014 isn't entirely ruled out for a release date...but we should rejoice!

I don't see him adding another book. I get the impression from interviews that he wants this beast off his back.

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Doubting this year makes it sound like it's even a possibility, that's more than I thought.

I think the show will run 7 seasons, and the last book will not be out in time.

Even assuming eight seasons, which I think is generous, GRRM will only have until March 2018 to release ADOS, and that's even assuming he's able to finish in seven books. There's no way he can stick to that timeframe. Assuming seven seasons, which is a bit more reasonable, GRRM has until March 2017, and that timeframe's even less realistic.

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I believe its entirely plausible for the series will be 8-9 or even 12 books.


I don't see it converging towards an end. Unless TWOW is a big plot revolution, there is no way to end the story in another book.


I am not sure GRRM really knows how to get to the ending he has planned. He had a pretty good understanding of the world he was building , the major plot lines, and the ending when he started writing but I dont think he has the middle quite figured out , perhaps even now.



Don't blame him. Its not easy to wrap up as story like this.


This is why you need a plan. Maybe the show reaching an end will give him some ideas (I doubt it though, that they can , or rather will want to create something that stands up to his standards).


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I believe its entirely plausible for the series will be 8-9 or even 12 books.

I don't see it converging towards an end. Unless TWOW is a big plot revolution, there is no way to end the story in another book.

I am not sure GRRM really knows how to get to the ending he has planned. He had a pretty good understanding of the world he was building , the major plot lines, and the ending when he started writing but I dont think he has the middle quite figured out , perhaps even now.

Don't blame him. Its not easy to wrap up as story like this.

This is why you need a plan. Maybe the show reaching an end will give him some ideas (I doubt it though, that they can , or rather will want to create something that stands up to his standards).

The showrunners had a big powwow with GRRM in 2013 where they got a lot of detail about future plots. Not sure how far into ADOS or even TWOW the plotline descriptions went, though. I think the writers at this point are sufficiently comfortable with the characters to proceed on the barest of plot outlines: Seasons 2 and 3 had entire plots that were either non-book or which deviated significantly from the books.

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I think the books have positioned things so that it can be wrapped up in 2. People should be coming together now rather than splitting off and Aegon has started his push, Dany can't be far behind or she will lose her best chance. It's entirely possible that George could finish the series before the show, but this is based on hope, mostly. I hope that he knows the broad strokes of the ending (most certainly) and that he just has to flesh it out. The hope is that he doesn't let the characters get away from him and keeps them on task.


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I think the books have positioned things so that it can be wrapped up in 2. People should be coming together now rather than splitting off and Aegon has started his push, Dany can't be far behind or she will lose her best chance. It's entirely possible that George could finish the series before the show, but this is based on hope, mostly. I hope that he knows the broad strokes of the ending (most certainly) and that he just has to flesh it out. The hope is that he doesn't let the characters get away from him and keeps them on task.

It depends on how may chapters we have to spend with Tyrion on a boat

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I think TWOW will be finished before the HBO show airs covering those chapters. (The show creators may have to write some story sans book in hand, however)


I think ADOS is unlikely to be finished before the HBO show covers that territory.


I think that if the show wraps up in 7 seasons it is very unlikely to have a conclusion anything like what the books will have. (it might not even have one at all)


I think that if the show wraps up in 8 seasons it is somewhat unlikely to have a conclusion anything like what the books will have.


I sincerely doubt that the show will be able to wrap up in 8 seasons in a satisfactory way, regardless of the timing of the 2 (3?) future books.


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A lot depends on how quickly the writers get through AFFC and ADWD. I get the impression that it's going to take much less time than GRRM seems to think it will.



There was also a recent interview with Lena Headey where she said (spoilers for TV show)



that she thinks Cersei's penance walk will take place in Season 5.



And we also know that Season 4 includes (spoilers for TV show)



AFFC material for at least the beginning of Brienne and Pod's quest, and at least some of Theon's ADWD plot.


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Call me crazy but so long as the show sticks as close to what GRRM had planned as possible, I'm not that bothered about the TV show over-taking the books. Admittedly I came to the books through the show, as many did. And I know it's not exactly fair on the long-time readers, but there's only one man to blame if this does happen.

TV is perhaps the one creative medium where absolutely no leeway is given. Metallica can sit on their asses and fight each other for nearly a decade, release a piece of garbage like St Anger and are still universally adored to this day. Authors, musicians, even film-makers are actually protected from those who would seek to rush them. If D&D came up short on a season of GoT or had a delay in production or opted to go in a different direction creatively mid-production as GRRM has done, they and their careers in television would be by all regards 'ruined.' If GRRM can't keep up with them they have no choice but to push forward and should not be blamed for it.

Still, in an ideal world, we finish season 4 with a creepy, off-key rendition of 'Mhysa' whilst LS hangs Lame Lothar. Fade to black then "Winds of Winter, Fall 2014" Although I'd gladly take early 2015 at this point.

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I don't care about the show, I don't even see how this affects ASOIAF at all. They have the rights to produce those episodes, and as far as I understand it, they can basicly do what they want with it. I hope to read tWoW sometime in 2016, but I would not be surprised at all if it turns out to be 2017. GRRM's going to do whatever he feels needs to be done, this is his "magnum opus", he will do it in his time. People wait for the end of this beloved Song since about 18 years now... just be patient and wait and don't get your hopes up everytime someone speculates that it is all coming soon....


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A lot depends on how quickly the writers get through AFFC and ADWD. I get the impression that it's going to take much less time than GRRM seems to think it will.

There was also a recent interview with Lena Headey where she said (spoilers for TV show)

that she thinks Cersei's penance walk will take place in Season 5.

In season 5 would be extremly fast. It should take place in season 6, but, well...I'm not so sure now. That would mean Cersei's arc in AFFC and ADWD are made in one season, which is, IMO, a mistake. We are talking about 12 POV chapters

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Casting news for Season 5, if previous seasons are any indication, should start to trickle out as early as June. That should be fairly telling as to how far into AFFC/ADWD we're going to get (and how, if at all, the writers will deal with characters like Arianne, Quentyn and Victarion).


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Assuming that Season 6 will start dipping into TWOW territory--which I think is a fair assumption--then GRRM has until about March of 2016 to publish TWOW to stay ahead of the show.

The writers start writing for the next season a year and a half before it actually winds up airing (Season 4 writing started in the fall of 2012), so depending on how aware he is of the process and which episode he winds up writing for Season 6, GRRM will probably be well aware around fall 2014/spring 2015 of just how screwed he is.

I think he's known for a long time. All he's had to do is read D&D's interviews, and surely they've told him even more in private, yet for some reason he continued to act confident that books 4 & 5 would take up another 2-3 seasons after season 4.

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I think he's known for a long time. All he's had to do is read D&D's interviews, and surely they've told him even more in private, yet for some reason he continued to act confident that books 4 & 5 would take up another 2-3 seasons after season 4.

Yeah. I guess I just took him at his word and assumed he was optimistic, rather than just hemming and hawing in interviews about how AFFC and ADWD would take a long time to adapt. And really, if he was actually truly confident that the books would stay ahead of the show, why brief the writers in detail about post-ADWD plotlines in 2013? If he really thought adapting AFFC and ADWD would take as long to get through on the show as he seemed to think, then why would he even need to do so?

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I think GRRM won't admit that the Tv Show will surpass the books, but that's a logical conclusion. Brienne can't simply walk around during two whole seasons looking for Sansa. That makes for awful TV. Nor can Sansa's storyline be stretched more than this season and maybe the first five episodes of the next. Same with Bran, Arya and Tyrion. We'd have characters doing nothing for most of season five, especially because of the way GRRM divided the Feast and Dance. Dany has to finish season five with the end of DWD, otherwise, what will they do to stretch her storyline? Same with Tyrion and Jon.



There's not much they can use from the original material. They can't even focus on the new characters because that would be a major series-killer. Viewers, much like readers, are attached to our core characters, and I doubt changing the focus to the Iron Born/Dorne will make much success. That said, Cersei's storyline will probably be the best storyline in season, as Jaime's. They both can stand strong in that season, if the events transpire much like Feast and Dance.


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I think GRRM won't admit that the Tv Show will surpass the books, but that's a logical conclusion. Brienne can't simply walk around during two whole seasons looking for Sansa. That makes for awful TV. Nor can Sansa's storyline be stretched more than this season and maybe the first five episodes of the next. Same with Bran, Arya and Tyrion. We'd have characters doing nothing for most of season five, especially because of the way GRRM divided the Feast and Dance. Dany has to finish season five with the end of DWD, otherwise, what will they do to stretch her storyline? Same with Tyrion and Jon.

Well, sure, if there were no new major characters introduced with big plots of their own, but of course a big chunk of AFFC/ADWD is just that (Quentyn, Arianne, Victarion, etc. etc.). I don't see how the writers can get through AFFC/ADWD by the end of Season 5 without ignoring entire sections of the books.

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