Tiggy4Real Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I always felt like the High Sparrow/ High Septon was recognizable to Cersei, just a little bit. Idk I really don't think that this guy is some random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 [quote name="SpringKing" post="5540273" The body cavity exams? Theyre SOP in the US prison system, women included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojen Dayne-Reed Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Agreed but we actually have no info on whether HR was a nice guy. Also in the context of asoif. Sleep deprivation probably doesn't register on their torture meter (disclaimer: obviously I'm not advocating torture, hurting women, or calling things not torture when they are in fact torture.) but in the asoif world the HS's treatment of accused adulteresses probably was pretty standard. (Because Middle Ages' standards for the treatment of women and prisoners and women prisoners was super messed up. NOT because I advocate this behavior.) I mean the Nights Watch puts people in freezing ice cells. The black cells sound like the worst thing ever. This, in relation to the societal norm was probably being nice. Also Ramsey Bolton exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Where do you guys start to think that he is Howland Reed? Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I agree. As I said, this is my 100% biased interpretation of HR and my hope that he's in fact the good guy that he appears to be. He's after all 1 of 6 that Ned took to the ToJ, which I assume means he had earned Ned's respect. We also know Lyanna went to bat for him. So I want him to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 But I think the idea that the people of the north are still working toward a Stark run North doesn't take away from their characters. I didn't say that. Manderly is a fantastic character, but completely grey. His motives are not just about restoring the Starks, but is influenced by the Hornwood mini civil war, the Bolton-Frey axis killing his son, his position in a Roose Bolton controlled north, but he also has ambitions of stewardship of the North for Rickon and making him marry his daughter. He has motives, ambitions and desires and it progresses from book to book. The Greatjon has similarly been a good character as we see him start off happy to let the Satrks fend for themselves unless he gets the position he wants, but his relationship is strengthened as he spends a great deal of time in Robbs company and loses his son to a Bolton who betrayed him and Robb. These are great examples of men who want the Starks back in power and it has been backed up with text. Similarly the other men who influence behind the scenes are Varys and Littlefinger. Both of whom have been given great and multiple motives to explain why they do what they do. By contrast, this theory suggests that Howland Reed is some lazy Deus ex machina who does nothing when the Starks are alive but in a month single handedly turns the tide. The thought that someone who is capable of so much in a month but actually has done so little in the previous three years is bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Somebody else's theory, but I like the thought of the High Sparrow either working for or being Varys. Its a good way for Varys to further destabilise Kings Landing & the Lannister/Tyrell alliance, especially if on his way to Kings Landing Aegon can prove to be a pious King. Would help get the people on his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojen Dayne-Reed Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Man that's gonna get super philosophical. Can good men torture? Do cultural norms of what is/isn't acceptable treatment of prisoners or women mean a person is or isn't a 'good' person when they conform to those norms ...nope too much. Let's talk about how surprised everyone will be when it's not Cersi but HR who destroys KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Man that's gonna get super philosophical. Can good men torture? Do cultural norms of what is/isn't acceptable treatment of prisoners or women mean a person is or isn't a 'good' person when they conform to those norms ...nope too much. Let's talk about how surprised everyone will be when it's not Cersi but HR who destroys KL.I agree, it's a difficult question. As I said, Dany is my girl, but she's also tortured people. I appreciate and respect Stannis, but he's tortured people. A lot of "good" guys have used torturers, so o guess HR could continue to be good even as the HS. It would surprise the heck out of the fandom if HR was the one to destroy KL, not Cersei! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Where do you guys start to think that he is Howland Reed? Nonsense. I agree thats why I've sat this one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Ps: if you imagine a kid with their fingers I their ears yelling, "la la la, I can't hear you," that basically sums up my reaction to HR=HS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpkinsAndStarks Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I really hope the theory that HR=HS is wrong because I find the HS repulsive. His treatment of women is quite disgusting. Remember, Margery was subjected to the same treatment as Cersei while in captivity, and Margery is innocent (of alleged offenses at least). Also, he tortured the Kettleblack brother something fierce!HR comes off as a good person, I don't want to think he'd be ok with the actions of the HS. Treatment of women as in, specifically, the two women who've been accused of serious crimes. I think most would agree that Cersei's deserves whatever she gets, being that we are privy to her POV among others and that Margery being accused of infidelity to the king is major and would not be taken likely by the Westorosi justice system. Kettleblack is a goon and a murderer and was plotting against QMT, with whom you apparently sympathize. I don't think HS=HR but I also don't believe that if he is, his actions as HS would make him any less of a "good person" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Treatment of women as in, specifically, the two women who've been accused of serious crimes. I think most would agree that Cersei's deserves whatever she gets, being that we are privy to her POV among others and that Margery being accused of infidelity to the king is major and would not be taken likely by the Westorosi justice system. Kettleblack is a goon and a murderer and was plotting against QMT, with whom you apparently sympathize. I don't think HS=HR but I also don't believe that if he is, his actions as HS would make him any less of a "good person" It's not really who he tortured, it's that he tortured, that turns me off from him being HR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd be more surprised if there was any unstained character by the end. War corrupts everybody involved seems to be message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd be more surprised if there was any unstained character by the end. War corrupts everybody involved seems to be message.I agree, but a girl can hope, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy4Real Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The High Sparrow isn't Howland Reed. There's no way a guy that devoted to the Old Gods becomes the High Septon. There's also no indication that the High Sparrow isn't sincere in his faith. Also, Howland Reed hasn't been walking around enough to have the High Septon's gnarled feet. You don't get blisters walking in swamps. He was at Greywater Watch until at least ACOK. He's likely still there by ADWD coordinating the attacks on Moat Cailin. If he isn't just some random guy, I think a member of House Reyne makes more sense. If he was a younger son who had already become a Septon, he might have escaped Tywin's notice just like Maester Aemon escaped Robert's notice. A member of House Reyne would have motivation for wanting to bring down the Lannnisters and would be able to sympathize with the losses suffered by the smallfolk during the war. A member of house Reyne would be great for this story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I do not think that the High Septon is a character we've met before AFFC. ANd I don't want him to be. He's cool enough has he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I don't see how the High Sparrow could be Howland Reed. Their descriptions are similar but there are many notable differences. Howland would surely be recognized by someone in King's Landing and the fact that he worships the Old Gods kind of rules out being the head of the Faith of the Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy4Real Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 His treatment of Margery and Cersei was disgusting... though Cersei has done far worse to other women. In contrast, this same High Septon is promising a Trial by Faith with 7 judges, with each judge representing an aspect of the Seven. Meaning, he's putting at least 3 women into a position of authority over a nobleman. However, there is also a chance the Stranger will be represented by a Silent Sister, meaning 4 out of Margaery's 7 judges will be women. He also surrounds himselves with Septas who he uses as high functionaries and confidantes. I don't think he's misogynistic, but rather has decided society has to much sin and he needs to punish that sin, including sexual transgressions. Any woman capable of avoiding the latter earns his respect. If Mance Raydar was not already in use, I would say this sounds more like his deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I do not think that the High Septon is a character we've met before AFFC. ANd I don't want him to be. He's cool enough has he is. The newly reformed Faith Militant and impending trials by combat mean we're bound to see the HS again. But if the KLT parallel holds, he's going to disappear as easily as he appeared, never to be named, like the mystery knight in the midst of the Harrenhal tourney. Hard to say what symbol he'll leave behind like the knight's discarded shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.