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Sci-Fi epic in the vein of WoT?

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We could maybe keep arguments for or against the quality of WoT out of here, mainly what I'm wondering is if there are epics in SciFi on its scale? I love WoT, and unlike a lot of people the rambling and slow bits were some of my favorites. I mostly liked how there were so many different factions, each with their own goals, conspiracy on top of conspiracy, large scale battles, vast history, etc. And I appreciated the page count for diving into all of these things so fully, although admittedly longwindedly at times. But again, I actually liked that aspect of the books.



What in SciFi comes close to matching that kind of feel? I'd love to get into a SciFi series right now, but I can't find one to hold my interest, and I think it's mostly because I'm not finding something which encompasses most of what I want. I need big page counts, several competing factions playing their own games, a ton of history and maybe not quite so much of the "grimdark" the kids seem to be so into these days. I like spending time in these functional worlds, but mostly when the world isn't shitting on me every 3 pages.



thanks.


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Vorkosigan? It's probably not as slow and long winded as you're looking for, but you definitely won't feel like you're being shat upon constantly. It's hard for me not to smile when I'm reading these books.



Peter F. Hamilton might be what you're looking for, but I haven't read him so I'm not sure how long winded he is. His books are quite large though.


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Oooh, I just thought of a series that is slow and deliberate, but it's not set in space, therefore no large space battles: Jump 225 Trilogy by David Louis Edelman.


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Uh, Honor Harrington? I guess? Fun for 6 books or so, then gets super dragged out and the pace slows down to nothing....hmmm it IS a lot like WoT.


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Hamilton. Long endless side plots and deus ex machina. Not my thing but some folks here love him.

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No grimdark? I suppose now is not the time to bring up the Gap Cycle. (the "kids these days" remark is funny though considering this was written twenty years ago.) I suppose there would be something to be said about the Culture books by Banks, only they don't have recurring characters. Cordwainer Smith's Instrumentality of man also has ton of history, conspiracy and stuff, I guess, but is also more a compilation of stories than a behemoth of a series detailing how girls do circus tricks in shrinking robes.

But anyway, what about the Dune series? It's basically fantasy wrapped in a sci-fi setting, seems to be what you are looking for. There is PERN, Darkover, Foundation in that vein too.

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Definitely Hamilton. Same scope, same multiplicity of characters and plots, same detailed but occassionaly stiff worldbuilding, same slight skeeviness about women.


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I agree with above:



Enjoyed the Vorkosigan stuff but been a long time since I read that.



Peter F. Hamilton is probably what you are looking for. While a lot of people on this forum have a hate-on for Hamilton I actually enjoy his work. Also he has what I consider the only Deus Ex Machina that actually makes sense as a resolution to a series - although I wont add anything else. Spoilers Doctor.



Kevin J Anderson Saga of Seven Suns was pretty good with world building. I know people hate on KJA more than Hamilton here but this is my personal opinion, maybe not the best written but I enjoyed the concepts.



Michael Cobley Humanity's Fire series is also good. Although not epic in scale it was well realised and I did enjoy the underlying Antagonists.



Herberts Dune also looks like something you may want to check out.



Asimovs Foundation series is also great IMO.



Orson Scott Card Ender series was brilliant. Enders Game was a great start and in honesty if you take all the Shadow novels as well there's fairly large scope. Speaker for the Dead was probably my favourite. I know Card is hated on because of his views but IMO his work is very good.



Iain Banks Culture series. I have not read these yet so cannot recommend them on a personal level but I have heard some fantastic things and these are on my "to read" pile.



David Brin Uplift series. Another one on my "to read" pile but again I have heard good things about this series.



Simmons Hyperion Cantos is often cited as large in scope and quality. Another on my "to read list".



If anyone has any reviews on the series listed above that I haven't read I would be interested to hear opinions.



Thanks


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Vorkosigan seems the right way to go to me.


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But anyway, what about the Dune series? It's basically fantasy wrapped in a sci-fi setting, seems to be what you are looking for.

Not to mention an obvious influence on Wheel of Time. The similarities between the Aiel and the Fremen and the Aes Sedai and the Bene Gessirit are hard to ignore.

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There isn't actually a DEM in Hamilton's Night's Dawn Trilogy (if it's the one people usually talk about), it's just that they don't understand what 'DEM' actually means. You can't set up the ending in Book 1 and have characters moving towards the ending for 2,500 pages and then call the ending a DEM when it shows up. It's like saying the One Ring killing Sauron is a DEM when we're pretty much told that will happen in the second chapter of LotR. Totally nonsensical.



But yes, I agree that Hamilton, Donaldson, Herbert and Bujold do fit some of the criteria.


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Hahaha, was wondering when Wert was going to show up in this thread and take the bait.

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It's like saying the One Ring killing Sauron is a DEM when we're pretty much told that will happen in the second chapter of LotR. Totally nonsensical.

Gollum being the one responsible for it is the Deus ex machina, not what happens when the Ring is destroyed.

So, indeed, it's quite a small and weak one.

Still a Deus Ex Machina, since Tolkien himself said that it was basically Eru giving a little push to Gollum, because Frodo had been so brave for so long and nearly did it.

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David Brin Uplift series. Another one on my "to read" pile but again I have heard good things about this series.

Simmons Hyperion Cantos is often cited as large in scope and quality. Another on my "to read list".

If anyone has any reviews on the series listed above that I haven't read I would be interested to hear opinions.

Hyperion is a classic, and I really like it when I read it, decades ago, but I don't know if it really would fit the criteria of "so many different factions, each with their own goals, conspiracy on top of conspiracy, large scale battles, vast history, etc. And [...] page count". While narration is divided between a half dozen of main characters, their agendas never really interferes, and they find themselves locked on the same objective, there is at least two twist, one you could call a big conspiracy, but it's not really like there is heaps of them. I don't remember it exploring the universe-building at much length, either.

Uplift not really about conspiracies and multiple factions as such, either. While it's in a way always about humanity and friends versus a not too united hodgepodge of exotic alien races, it always felt pretty straighforward, and more of an adventure romp than a political/conspiracy one. As I recall, each book is pretty much self-contained and more about developing the concept of "client" races and dumb aliens than about the worldbuilding (though it all starts with a pretty big macguffin discovery)

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Iain Banks Culture series. I have not read these yet so cannot recommend them on a personal level but I have heard some fantastic things and these are on my "to read" pile.

While I think it is one of the best SF series around, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for this particular topic. It's not a sprawling epic like WoT, every book is more or less standalone and while I haven't checked I wouldn't be surprised if the longest book in the Culture series was shorter than the shortest WoT book.

Not to mention an obvious influence on Wheel of Time. The similarities between the Aiel and the Fremen and the Aes Sedai and the Bene Gessirit are hard to ignore.

I agree Dune seems the best suggestion.

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DId someone seriosuly reccomend KJA?

Truly, these are the end times.

And there will come a time on the board, in the year of our lord 2014, that a man, or woman will proclaim the greatness of the Three Lettered Beast. On that day the sky will bleed, and the seas will boil.

Repent ye sinners, repent. Your time is near.

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