How far will the ironborn get?

[The Fresh PtwP]

The Ironborn? Not far.

Euron? The sky is the limit.

I don't think Euron gives a damn about his people. Although they may be lucky enough to continuously pose the least threat until the other Houses run out of steam.

[Hippocras]

How far will they get? Hopefully they'll come to Toronto so I can kick them all in the balls.

:D

[Hippocras]

I think the IB need some reform, not annihilation. They also need access to an economy other than reaving. If they were part of a larger territory with some good agricultural land they could provide the fish, the navy and the merchant ships as long as they ditched the parasitic value system that raises rape and pillage to the level of religious imperative.

What I see is Asha and Stannis forming an alliance to take down Euron. How that plays out is a discussion for another thread. However part of how it plays out will include an IB alliance with a larger territory that has a richer economy. This will last even though Stannis will not.

[Aeraz Freefyre]

Do people really think Victarion will succeed in making Dany his salt wife? Really? I'm sure The George could make it work, but it sounds like an awful idea.

Well imo there s a lot of thinking about what will Vic do once he gets in the middle of the battle for Meereen,but nothing I have read suits my vision.

First of all we know 1 thing for sure: Euron's gifts are poisoned. Moqorro tells Vic that he must claim the horn because the dragons will come to the horn s master, but how will he be able to do so while Euron s a world away from him? My bet is Viserion or Rhaegal will fall to the horn s sound but not to Victarion s will. Either Euron will turn out on silence in slaver s bay or will be able to get the dragon to come to him (or maybe somehow make it stay on a ship till Westeros). That would be a good way to make Daenerys turn her head definitely towards home,because a mother sbould never abandon her children. ;) Maybe she could even get Vic to help fetch her army back with the iron fleet (maybe is all a crackpot) but you know, he would hate his brother more than ever if I got it right....

I think Euron give s a shit about the anti-slavery crusade Dany has begun and thus could change his purpouse of a marriage with the most beautiful women in the world, who besides is already married.

[Hippocras]

I think that the battle for Meereen will happen without Dany. Vic will play a very big role by defeating the Volantene fleet. He will capture both dragons in Meereen but not Drogon, however doing so will have some kind of curse to it which will consume him slowly. He will kill Hizdahr and marry Dany in her absence, just like Euron did to Asha, making himself king of Meereen.

Then Tyrion will team up with Marwyn and Barristan to find a way to free the dragons and tame Viserion. Marwyn may have Aemon's corpse with him, so that may play a role. Moqorro's allegiance at this point is hard to read, so I don't know if he would help.

They will either send someone out to find Dany, or someone (Tyrion) will ride Viserion out to find her. She will be with the Dothraki and Drogon, who is a reincarnation of Drogo and will be trying to take her to Dosh Khaleen. Some Tyrion improvised trickery will follow to get her away from there.

They will return to Meereen and burn Victarion. Then Dany will claim his fleet to take her army home.

[TheCoffeeThatWasPromised]

Well, the iron fleet is with Victarion near Meeren. I highly doubt that he will take Dany as his salt wife. So, either he could get killed or he allies with Daenerys and the means for her to go to Westeros. I'm not sure what will happen to the Dragon binder horn.

Assuming Dany sides with Vic, they all get on the Iron fleet to go back - News will go back to Westeros and possibly the Redwyne fleet could attack the Dany/Vic fleet. Or storms could diminish their forces. So either way they won't make it back in 1 piece.

[OursistheRoose]

Hopefully sacking Oldtown, the Arbor and Highgarden then moving on to Dragonstone and Kingslanding and Storms End.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I don't think it does support your points.

Much more interesting for Aegon to win? Then where is the second Dance of Dragons GRRM has hinted at? Without Aegon there is no second Dance.

Who said the Dance has to be between Targaryens? All it means is that two rivals with dragons will clash. Aegon has no way to control dragons, especially if he's a fake, but Euron does.

And Euron has been built up much more than Aegon has, that's undeniable. He's also much more interesting, and having him slay the "son" of Rhaegar will be a nice way to set up a conflict between him and Dany. As for Moqorro, who knows what he's really up to? Victarion certainly isn't going to get one up on his brother though

[Hippocras]

Who said the Dance has to be between Targaryens? All it means is that two rivals with dragons will clash. Aegon has no way to control dragons, especially if he's a fake, but Euron does.

And Euron has been built up much more than Aegon has, that's undeniable. He's also much more interesting, and having him slay the "son" of Rhaegar will be a nice way to set up a conflict between him and Dany. As for Moqorro, who knows what he's really up to? Victarion certainly isn't going to get one up on his brother though

I agree. People are assuming too much about the Dance of Dragons part of the story.

Stannis may raise one eventually, or Euron, or both. Even if they don't, Aegon is posing as a "dragon" the Martells are dragon descendants and loyalists, and Stannis can also claim dragon blood. We really just don't know how that part will play out.

[Aeraz Freefyre]

Who said the Dance has to be between Targaryens? All it means is that two rivals with dragons will clash. Aegon has no way to control dragons, especially if he's a fake, but Euron does.

And Euron has been built up much more than Aegon has, that's undeniable. He's also much more interesting, and having him slay the "son" of Rhaegar will be a nice way to set up a conflict between him and Dany. As for Moqorro, who knows what he's really up to? Victarion certainly isn't going to get one up on his brother though

Yes that s the point. The crow s eye is going to be a big player in the game and nobody knows how to handle him.

[Fire Eater]

Who said the Dance has to be between Targaryens? All it means is that two rivals with dragons will clash. Aegon has no way to control dragons, especially if he's a fake, but Euron does.

And Euron has been built up much more than Aegon has, that's undeniable. He's also much more interesting, and having him slay the "son" of Rhaegar will be a nice way to set up a conflict between him and Dany. As for Moqorro, who knows what he's really up to? Victarion certainly isn't going to get one up on his brother though

If there aren't two claimants of Targaryen blood then why would GRRM call it the second Dance of Dragons? There were non-Targaryen claimants as well in the first Dance, but it was principally between a man and woman of Targaryen blood. Euron has a way to control dragons? Euron no longer has the dragonhorn, and Moqorro sabotaged it. Do you think Moqorro would allow the dragons to be taken away from the person he believes to be AA? How can he can control dragons without the horn?

Built up much more than Aegon has? There hints pointing to Aegon fighting Dany going back to AGoT and the mummer's dragon in the HotU. There are no hints to Euron slaying Aegon. Euron has a small army compared to all the other claimants and most of his warships, the Iron Fleet, will go to Dany. Aegon is also more built up as he is believed to be Rhaegar's son.

Why would GRRm put a Blackfyre under the guise of a Targaryen prince in the story if Aegon is just going to be killed early by Euron? That would contribute very little to the story.

[Hippocras]

The fight for the right to lead the Ironborn is an awful lot like the first Dance of Dragons - a female heir who was disputed simply for being female who will now fight her uncle to claim her rights.....

[Ramsay Gimp]

Why would GRRm put a Blackfyre under the guise of a Targaryen prince in the story if Aegon is just going to be killed early by Euron? That would contribute very little to the story.

Why would he put a Greyjoy King with connections to sorcery in the story if he's going to be killed off before doing anything impressive?

[Hippocras]

Aegon is going to take the iron throne. Have no fear!

Briefly though.

Euron will also occupy it and do some nasty shit.

Stannis may also occupy it.

[Fire Eater]

Why would he put a Greyjoy King with connections to sorcery in the story if he's going to be killed off before doing anything impressive?

To advance the plot. Euron isn't the first Greyjoy to crown himself in the series. He already has done things worth noting: killing Balon, crowned king, taken the Shield Islands, harassed the Reach, and sent the horn and the Iron Fleet to Dany.

[Gneisenau]

The Ironborn had 1000 ships, with probably 50 men avg on each ship. This puts Ironborn numbers at 50k men. This is comparable to most 7 Kingdoms armies. This means despite the lack of agriculture and wealth the Ironborn somehow can field lots of men. This means actually most of Westeros are inefficent because despite their superior wealth individual regions only match the poor Ironborn.

[Ramsay Gimp]

To advance the plot. Euron isn't the first Greyjoy to crown himself in the series. He already has done things worth noting: killing Balon, crowned king, taken the Shield Islands, harassed the Reach, and sent the horn and the Iron Fleet to Dany.

Eh, agree to disagree then. I think we've only gotten a taste of what the Crow's Eye is going to offer, and killing him off now (or after a failed attempt at Oldtown) would be like killing off Roose Bolton at the end of ACOK

[Fire Eater]

Eh, agree to disagree then. I think we've only gotten a taste of what the Crow's Eye is going to offer, and killing him off now (or after a failed attempt at Oldtown) would be like killing off Roose Bolton at the end of ACOK

I don't think that is a good analogy as Bolton didn't become Warden of the North until around the same time as Euron becoming king, and his days are numbered in TWoW.

[Lord Reaver]

The Ironborn had 1000 ships, with probably 50 men avg on each ship. This puts Ironborn numbers at 50k men. This is comparable to most 7 Kingdoms armies. This means despite the lack of agriculture and wealth the Ironborn somehow can field lots of men. This means actually most of Westeros are inefficent because despite their superior wealth individual regions only match the poor Ironborn.

This is because in a medieval-type society there isn't a direct relation between the number of armed men you can field and wealth, a fact most people on these forums don't seem to be aware of.

Basically, you can be as rich as you want, but if there aren't any mercenaries to be had, that doesn't give you more men.

What DOES give you more men is having a larger proportion of your populace able and ready to bear arms, through some form of conscription. The Norse did this, and it seems highly likely the Ironborn (who draw heavily on inspiration from them) do the same. This gives you a pool of men ready to bear arms many times higher than would otherwise be estimated from the population size.

Basically, a higher % of the Ironborn men are going to war than among the greenlanders, where soldiers are largely full-time and the rest of the population only farm.

[The Knight of Greenfield]

Remember how the main economy on the islands is based on reaving, this means that the majority of men and some women will be very able fighters.