Why it is very unlikely Sansa Stark will be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms

[Jô Maltese]

Not necessarily. He can always annul the marraige as and when he sees fit

Not necessarily, granted. But why would he do that, tell me? He is clearly very found of her and yes, I can see him have their marriage annulled - if she asks him to, but political ambition (Tyrion) and idealism (Sansa) will convince them to carry on IMO.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Not necessarily, granted. But why would he do that, tell me? He is clearly very found of her and yes, I can see him have their marriage annulled - if she asks him to, but political ambition (Tyrion) and idealism (Sansa) will convince them to carry on IMO.

It won't matter Sansa doesn't want to stay married to him and she herself would have it annulled.

[para]

Sansa being anything will happen entirely independently of whether she or any readers want that for her (or her family). If things go really wrong, it might also happen independently of the question of whether she or anyone "deserves" it. A major reason why ASOIAF is celebrated for its realism is that in this story people do not get what they deserve or want. And if they get something they wanted, it is usually turns out to be horrible. That tends to be sort of thing that we witness all the time in the real world and thus consider realistic.

So I believe that if Sansa becomes Queen in any capacity it won't be a dream come true. It will not something she would want in that way nor something she would deserve for better or worse. Best case scenario is that it will be something she is good at.

[Elaena Targaryen]

The Starks have a claim to the IT referenced multiple times in GoT.

I was just thinking about this, albeit for a different reason, so I wondered if you would mind providing the quotes?

[Kienn]

I was just thinking about this, albeit for a different reason, so I wondered if you would mind providing the quotes?

Robert sat down again. “Damn you, Ned Stark. You and Jon Arryn, I loved you both. What

have you done to me? You were the one should have been king, you or Jon.”

“You had the better claim, Your Grace.”

“I told you to drink, not to argue. You made me king, you could at least have the courtesy to listen when I talk, damn you. Look at me, Ned. Look at what kinging has done to me. Gods, too fat for my armor, how did it ever come to this?”

The queen stood. “And what of my wrath, Lord Stark?” she asked softly. Her eyes searched his face. “You should have taken the realm for yourself. It was there for the taking. Jaime told me how you found him on the Iron Throne the day King’s Landing fell, and made him yield it up. That was your moment. All you needed to do was climb those steps, and sit. Such a sad mistake.”

“I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine,” Ned said, “but that was not one of them.”

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I don't think it necessarily means that the Starks can rightfully take the iron throne, but more like that Westeros is a strong man enforcer. People seize power and take it when opportunity is laid before them.

[Jô Maltese]

It won't matter Sansa doesn't want to stay married to him and she herself would have it annulled.

I don't think annulation will be valid when Tyrion comes back on the political stage, as a King or not... Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

[Woman of War]

Not necessarily. He can always annul the marraige as and when he sees fit

Not necessarily, granted. But why would he do that, tell me? He is clearly very found of her and yes, I can see him have their marriage annulled - if she asks him to, but political ambition (Tyrion) and idealism (Sansa) will convince them to carry on IMO.

I mean, Martin can always write the story the way that Tyrion and Sansa will feel at home with each other and start a trusting and deep relationship - and why not? I am not talking about instant jumping under the duvet, too dumb, but of growing respect, caring and warmth. One scenario.

But TheSnape, you are right.

People seem to consider only one possibilty: that Sansa may wish to end the marriage. But in the end it might just as well be Tyrion who seeks a possibility to get out of that marriage in a way where both can save face. Either he is simply not interested in Sansa as person anymore and doesn't fancy dreadful boring meals or he has found someone else to love, looking forward to inspired dinner conversation. But we simply do not know the two characters' development and story yet to come, the dreams and wishes they may have at the end if they are still alive at all. They might have a lot to talk about in the end or be dead.

What are the odds of Tyrion ever being king? What are the odds these two would choose to stay together? Very remote and remote. A surprise if Martin decides to write that story turn.

For Sansa being queen on her own right the odds are zero. Except the very remote chance of being queen on the North, de facto Lady of Winterfell, if her family is mostly extinct.

I don't think annulation will be valid when Tyrion comes back on the political stage, as a King or not....

Maybe, but Tyrion would neither tie himself to a courteous wife nor force her to be his daily boredom. There would not be Big Daddy behind him anymore. So he will hardly force her stay with him if he should be in a position of power. If the war is over she can simply take a horse and go wherever she wants, annullment or not.

[Elaena Targaryen]

T4P :) I didn't want to forget any.

I don't think it necessarily means that the Starks can rightfully take the iron throne, but more like that Westeros is a strong man enforcer. People seize power and take it when opportunity is laid before them.

Yea, I know that anyway, but it's probably a good idea to make the point for others. There was no IT before the Targaryen Dynasty that forged the Seven Kingdoms - but I think if any others would use the 'might is right' rule to lay a claim on the throne it would need to be one of the high lords from the seven - which is why Jon and Ned made Robert king since he "had the better claim" with his Targaryen ancestry.

[Jô Maltese]

Snip

Woman of War (or Winds of Winter?), I mostly agree with everything you say. Except the odds: I don't think odds should be part of any demonstration of intention when dealing with GRRM... Or we would end up going for something like "the lower the odds, the higher the odds" ;) .

As for the scenario of growing respect, caring and warmth, this very much sounds like what happened to Sansa's mother, whom she takes some much after... And this kind of true love is exactly what Tyrion needs: it's his only chance, as no woman will ever fall for him at first sight (neither second nor third), so Sansa is not worse than any other potential wife. On the contrary, she is beautiful, high-class, respected, strong (he knows it) and can bring him the North.

But there are other reasons than my Tyrion bias that make me feel she is a serious contender for the Throne:

- She is a POV

- Margaery and Dany seem too obvious (odds again...) for the "more beautiful queen" title

- Her learning of politics, first with Cersei, now Baelish

- Her fame in a way, or call it popular legitimacy: she is a Stark and a Tully and a Lannister ; she was to become Joffrey's Queen before being spurned ; KL people know who she is and know she is one of them - not a savage Northerner or treacherous and wanton Dornish woman or worse, a foreign Mereenese. She is a true Princess from the Kingdom.

- Above all, her sense of duty and care towards the people that will make her a great Lady (as seen during the battle of Blackwater). Her Direwolf, a Lady-child fantasy, died and a true Lady was born: not unlike Aemon's "kill the boy and let the man be born".

[unSonofStannis]

It's become quite a popular theory among Game of Thrones fans that Sansa Stark will end up as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. There's little proof that this will happen, save for Littlefinger's involvement, and this is why I think that's quite unrealistic.

-Littlefinger's involvement in her life is purely done for his own benefit. We don't know his plans for Sansa, but making a rough guess, it's something that will actively benefit Littlefinger, and not necessarily something designed to boost Sansa's power.

- Sansa is widely thought to be guilty of Joffrey's murder. Her hairnet being at the scene implicates her in his murder, so everyone thinks that Sansa's a kingslayer (at least partly). It's unlikely that lords would welcome a kingslayer as their Queen. There's a reason she's disguised as Littlefinger's bastard daughter, Alayne Stone

-Unlike most of the other claimants (Dany, Aegon, Stannis etc.) she doesn't have an army or have Lords sworn to her. Say what you want about Dany and Stannis, but they have armies at this stage that are already sworn to them, and Stannis now has the allegiance of the North as well. Aegon doesn't have an army as of yet, but Varys and Ilyrio are trying to put him on the throne- and they're the kind of guys who MAKE armies, as soon the flip-flopping Lannisters, Tyrells, Tarlys etc. will all flock to them - maybe of questionable loyalty, but huge armies. Sansa doesn't even have anyone to declare her as Queen, so she is quite far behind. She doesn't really command any armies.

Aegon does have an army, The Golden Company and Stannis by no means has the allegiance of the North just the Hill clans, one Mormont daughter, Glovers wife, and a scattering of Tallharts, Cerwyns and Hornwoods.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I don't think it necessarily means that the Starks can rightfully take the iron throne, but more like that Westeros is a strong man enforcer. People seize power and take it when opportunity is laid before them.

Exactly. Ned got there first. That was his claim. Its not one passed on once passed up. He claimed the throne for Robert.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Woman of War (or Winds of Winter?), I mostly agree with everything you say. Except the odds: I don't think odds should be part of any demonstration of intention when dealing with GRRM... Or we would end up going for something like "the lower the odds, the higher the odds" ;) .

As for the scenario of growing respect, caring and warmth, this very much sounds like what happened to Sansa's mother, whom she takes some much after... And this kind of true love is exactly what Tyrion needs: it's his only chance, as no woman will ever fall for him at first sight (neither second nor third), so Sansa is not worse than any other potential wife. On the contrary, she is beautiful, high-class, respected, strong (he knows it) and can bring him the North.

But there are other reasons than my Tyrion bias that make me feel she is a serious contender for the Throne:

- She is a POV

- Margaery and Dany seem too obvious (odds again...) for the "more beautiful queen" title

- Her learning of politics, first with Cersei, now Baelish

- Her fame in a way, or call it popular legitimacy: she is a Stark and a Tully and a Lannister ; she was to become Joffrey's Queen before being spurned ; KL people know who she is and know she is one of them - not a savage Northerner or treacherous and wanton Dornish woman or worse, a foreign Mereenese. She is a true Princess from the Kingdom.

- Above all, her sense of duty and care towards the people that will make her a great Lady (as seen during the battle of Blackwater). Her Direwolf, a Lady-child fantasy, died and a true Lady was born: not unlike Aemon's "kill the boy and let the man be born".

Contrary to popular belief Sansa is not that similar to Catelyn. She physically looks like Cat, but really she is much more like Ned. Here is why;

- Both are the second child of their generation

- Both made similar mistakes in AGOT

- Both are idealistic

- Both don't have the wolf's blood and are more icy

- Both don their faces

- Similar habits e.g (putting their clothes on while the window is open).

- Sansa is right now in the same place where Ned grew up and has - just like him - a second father.

I like to think that Sansa is Ned's spiritual successor.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

For Sansa being queen on her own right the odds are zero. Except the very remote chance of being queen on the North, de facto Lady of Winterfell, if her family is mostly extinct.

I'd say It's not that remote for Sansa to rule in the North. I mean, if we were the average Westerosi, we'd expect Sansa to claim the North, as she is the only Stark known as alive, even if she "disappeared" at the PW. But I don't think Sansa will be Queen in the North or Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. I'm not sure how this mess will end for the Starks, but If I had to take a guess, I'd say Sansa might end up as regent to Little Rickon or claiming the Riverlands/Harrenhal.

Contrary to popular belief Sansa is not that similar to Catelyn. She physically looks like Cat, but really she is much more like Ned. Here is why;

- Both are the second child of their generation

- Both made similar mistakes in AGOT

- Both are idealistic

- Both don't have the wolf's blood and are more icy

- Both don their faces

- Similar habits e.g (putting their clothes on while the window is open).

- Sansa is right now in the same place where Ned grew up and has - just like him - a second father.

I like to think that Sansa is Ned's spiritual successor.

:agree: Looks can be quite deceiving. Arya is closer in personality to Cat than to most members of her family, and they don't look alike at all.

[Jô Maltese]

Contrary to popular belief Sansa is not that similar to Catelyn. She physically looks like Cat, but really she is much more like Ned. Here is why;

- Both are the second child of their generation

- Both made similar mistakes in AGOT

- Both are idealistic

- Both don't have the wolf's blood and are more icy

- Both don their faces

- Similar habits e.g (putting their clothes on while the window is open).

- Sansa is right now in the same place where Ned grew up and has - just like him - a second father.

I like to think that Sansa is Ned's spiritual successor.

:agree: I actually think you are absolutely right. Her resemblance with Ned is where her sense of duty and care come from for instance. And the growing warmth is also what happened to Ned towards Catelyn. So two good reasons for her to develop the same pattern!

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

i could see her as queen of the north or lady of the riverlands. not queen of the 7 kingdoms. she'll probably just live in the north, maybe as a councilor to rickon.

[David Selig]

:agree: I actually think you are absolutely right. Her resemblance with Ned is where her sense of duty and care come from for instance. And the growing warmth is also what happened to Ned towards Catelyn. So two good reasons for her to develop the same pattern!

It's hell of a lot easier to build growing love and respect when your spouse is a good person who doesn't have all kinds of serious psychological issues about the opposite gender, and not someone like Tyrion. Just saying.

[Woman of War]

Woman of War (or Winds of Winter?), I mostly agree with everything you say. Except the odds: I don't think odds should be part of any demonstration of intention when dealing with GRRM... Or we would end up going for something like "the lower the odds, the higher the odds" ;) .

As for the scenario of growing respect, caring and warmth, this very much sounds like what happened to Sansa's mother, whom she takes some much after... And this kind of true love is exactly what Tyrion needs: it's his only chance, as no woman will ever fall for him at first sight (neither second nor third), so Sansa is not worse than any other potential wife. On the contrary, she is beautiful, high-class, respected, strong (he knows it) and can bring him the North.

But there are other reasons than my Tyrion bias that make me feel she is a serious contender for the Throne:

- She is a POV

- Margaery and Dany seem too obvious (odds again...) for the "more beautiful queen" title

- Her learning of politics, first with Cersei, now Baelish

- Her fame in a way, or call it popular legitimacy: she is a Stark and a Tully and a Lannister ; she was to become Joffrey's Queen before being spurned ; KL people know who she is and know she is one of them - not a savage Northerner or treacherous and wanton Dornish woman or worse, a foreign Mereenese. She is a true Princess from the Kingdom.

- Above all, her sense of duty and care towards the people that will make her a great Lady (as seen during the battle of Blackwater). Her Direwolf, a Lady-child fantasy, died and a true Lady was born: not unlike Aemon's "kill the boy and let the man be born".

I like your post. Maybe I should start to see in Sansa what you see.

[DrunkSister]

I actually think that Sansa being a POV is against her becoming a Queen, GRRM has avoided showing us the POV of the players of Game of Thrones, so Sansa being a POV would mean she is just a puppet queen. Not unlike Cersei.

[Lord Reaver]

I actually think that Sansa being a POV is against her becoming a Queen, GRRM has avoided showing us the POV of the players of Game of Thrones, so Sansa being a POV would mean she is just a puppet queen. Not unlike Cersei.

Cersei wasn't a player ? Funny, isn't she the one with the famous line about playing the game in the first place ?

And Ned was a player. Granted, he wasn't very good at it...

Tyrion definitely is a player, he has tons of POV chapters.

Daenerys is a player (technically) though she hasn't taken part in it across the ocean yet.