Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 1. Rickon could be the first King of a combined North and Wilding Kingdom. Wildings will not accept Shireen. What makes you believe that the free folk will accept Rickon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 What makes you believe that the free folk will accept Rickon? If they come over the wall to fill the gift, they will have to. They aren't enough of a force to tip the social order. They can't expect safety without sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 If they come over the wall to fill the gift, they will have to. They aren't enough of a force to tip the social order. They can't expect safety without sacrifice. I see what you mean, I completely and utterly disagree because I don't thing that there is even the smallest possibility for them to bend to a stranger, a no one but I see what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I see what you mean, I completely and utterly disagree because I don't thing that there is even the smallest possibility for them to bend to a stranger, a no one but I see what you mean. yeah, at this point they are somewhat loyal to Jon, to the extent that they are capable of loyalty - and only Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr witz Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I see what you mean, I completely and utterly disagree because I don't thing that there is even the smallest possibility for them to bend to a stranger, a no one but I see what you mean. They'll bend to strength, that's what Rickon would have to show. This is repeatedly said about the wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy4Real Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 as the show will now be running in alignment/ahead of the books more than likely by this time next year, then if Gendrys around at the end of season 4 on the show then i imagine its safe to say he/Edric storm will play a role in the winds of winter. the writers of the show know about future plots, chracters etc - not sure if they know how it will lead/ or will end but future casting leaks etc give an idea of where the show is heading. off topic - i tell you what is amazingly poor editing is if you watch one of the season 4 trailers you can see something cersei is holding in her arms if you pause the video! whoever did that should be fired. is it something that gives away the plot or something that just shouldn't have been in the show at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 They'll bend to strength, that's what Rickon would have to show. This is repeatedly said about the wildlings. I am sure that a 6yo will be truly intimidating. yeah, at this point they are somewhat loyal to Jon, to the extent that they are capable of loyalty - and only Jon. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr witz Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I am sure that a 6yo will be truly intimidating. Right, that was kind of my point. He'd need something (or someone) else backing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Right, that was kind of my point. He'd need something (or someone) else backing him. I see sorry I didn't understand it. Well since I believe that at the end Rickon will be the Lord of WF and something like the Warden of the North he will be supported by the King himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar112 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 is it something that gives away the plot or something that just shouldn't have been in the show at all? would lead to a plot spoiler somewhat if a little thought was given.... especially the way the books/show are with characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyaStoned Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Even Storm's End seems a bit optimistic. I'd say the highest he'll rise is being husband to King Jon's Master of Whispers. :cool4: I don't think Storm's End is optimistic. Shireen seems fated to die of her disease, leaving no trueborn Baratheons. Hard to imagine that family being allowed (by the author or by Stannis) to just disappear into nothing. Gendry, Edric and Mya are the three of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I don't think Storm's End is optimistic. Shireen seems fated to die of her disease, leaving no trueborn Baratheons. Hard to imagine that family being allowed (by the author or by Stannis) to just disappear into nothing. Gendry, Edric and Mya are the three of interest. Why all the hating on Bella? Seriously, though, there's no reason for anyone to give Robert's bastards anything. If the Iron Throne is conquered by Dany, Aegon, or Euron, they'll need lands to give away to their staunch supporters. While Tommen keeps the throne, there's no way his mother would suffer Robert's real children to live, let alone inherit. Stannis has the power to legitimize the bastards and make them his heirs, but Stannis currently rules a fishing village west of Winterfell and nothing else. Unless Stannis has a huge turn of fortune, the only hope for Robert's bastards to rise high in the world is Varys, and that's a stretch. Varys does like collecting bastards, and he's a consummate player in the Game, but at this point he's gone all in on House Targaryen. Many people would have to die before Varys actively plotted to get Robert's bastards in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy4Real Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 I wouldn't rule out Varys helping them out, mostly because he was the only one to keep track of them. Maybe he knows some Targaryen bastards he could hook them up with? I honestly can't see how the entirety of the Targaryen line is basically Dany, (possibly fake) Aegon, and (widely believed) Jon. If Aerion and Daeron (I know Aegon's drunk brother had a D name) both had legitimate kids, I find it hard to believe that those (passed over) Targaryens didn't have kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyaStoned Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Why all the hating on Bella? Seriously, though, there's no reason for anyone to give Robert's bastards anything. If the Iron Throne is conquered by Dany, Aegon, or Euron, they'll need lands to give away to their staunch supporters. While Tommen keeps the throne, there's no way his mother would suffer Robert's real children to live, let alone inherit. Stannis has the power to legitimize the bastards and make them his heirs, but Stannis currently rules a fishing village west of Winterfell and nothing else. Unless Stannis has a huge turn of fortune, the only hope for Robert's bastards to rise high in the world is Varys, and that's a stretch. Varys does like collecting bastards, and he's a consummate player in the Game, but at this point he's gone all in on House Targaryen. Many people would have to die before Varys actively plotted to get Robert's bastards in power. Anyone who thinks Dany, Aegon or Euron "ends up" (meaning, is there at the end) on the IT is reading a different series than I have. I don't know who it'll be, but I'd be shocked if it's either of the latter two in any way at the end, and equally shocked if it's Dany alone. Assuming there is a kingdom left after all this is over, I think, despite Peter's plans, the great houses (other than perhaps the Lannisters, and even they may be allowed to survive through Tyrion) will be restored through mutual assent. That is to say, order will be restored. What's the point of winning a war with the Others, surviving all this Others vs Dragons stuff, fighting all these wild wars, if not to restore some semblance of order at the end? Positing an ending where there's retribution of this kind (stealing Storm's End from the Baratheons) or rampant disorder (Baelish ruling Riverrun or the Eyrie) is POSSIBLE, but it would be horrible storytelling imo. The story has to end in a calm, a true peace, and all that would do is ensure resentment and probably eventually more war going forward. However it ends I think it will be in a way that promotes a lasting peace. But that's me being optimistic, I admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Why all the hating on Bella? Seriously, though, there's no reason for anyone to give Robert's bastards anything. If the Iron Throne is conquered by Dany, Aegon, or Euron, they'll need lands to give away to their staunch supporters. While Tommen keeps the throne, there's no way his mother would suffer Robert's real children to live, let alone inherit. Stannis has the power to legitimize the bastards and make them his heirs, but Stannis currently rules a fishing village west of Winterfell and nothing else. Unless Stannis has a huge turn of fortune, the only hope for Robert's bastards to rise high in the world is Varys, and that's a stretch. Varys does like collecting bastards, and he's a consummate player in the Game, but at this point he's gone all in on House Targaryen. Many people would have to die before Varys actively plotted to get Robert's bastards in power. Good job the Starks are going to win then. I hear Starks like Baratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lyarah Winter Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 1. Rickon could be the first King of a combined North and Wilding Kingdom. Wildings will not accept Shireen. 2. Rickon could be ruler of the North with what appears to be no male heirs. He can't just up and leave to go the be King with Shireen. 3. Shireen's fate is concerning. I'd expect her to be dead before any legitimising begins anyway. 4. Shireen may be barren because of the Greyscale. A North with no male heirs will take no risks. 5. While Rickon/Shireen is possible and adorable, Gendry and Arya is the better opportunity and should Shireen die its a big plus in the Gendry column. Even with no marriage, Jon Snow is going to look favourably on the person who looked after his beloved sister. With Aegon in control of Storm's End Edric becomes even less useful. All his allies are conquered. He's going to fight for it back? With what army? So Massey takes him to Stannis, who is going to be the figurehead to retake Storm's End? He looks like Robert but he's 12. He will need someone with considerable force to place him in Storm's End. If Dany gets him I don't think he'll be much use to her. Stannis isn't worth blackmailing, he's turned from the throne for now. I don't think the Estermonts could muster much of a Stormlands fight back for Edric. Should Dany win, there is no reason to let Robert's son sit in his father's seat. I fully believe Edric's only hope is the Florents kicking the Tyrells out of the Reach and commanding their finances and armies to push for him when all is said and done. However I think by then Gendry will be all 'Second Coming of Robert at the Trident'. 1. Wildlings bend the knee to strength, even if he had the entire North backing him, The wilidlings still might not bend because Rickon as an individual is still only a child. He is not capable of large things like planning strategic battles, to simple things such as understanding the want and needs of the free folk. 2. If you mean Rickon might be King in the North because there is no other male heirs, there is still the question of Robb's will. Many believe that Robb legitimised and named Jon his heir. Setting aside the Lyanna/Rhaegar theories, because he is older and (presumably) now a Stark, Jon would become King In the North. The idea of Jon being King in the North and of The Free Folk is much more plausible. 3. Agreed. I do not expect Shireen to survive the series. 4. If Jon is legitimised then we have two male Stark heirs. 5. Arya is with The Faceless Men, when or if she returns to Westeros, Gendry is not likely to even know who she is anymore. Marriage for Arya is extremely unlikely. While yes, Jon would likely respect Gendry for taking care of Arya, I just don't believe that Jon would feel the need to favour Gendry, legitimise him or 'give' him anything. My guess is some Freys are going to run into that Hammer quite soon. Yes. Oh, please yes. yeah, at this point they are somewhat loyal to Jon, to the extent that they are capable of loyalty - and only Jon. Dance With Dragons spoiler If Jon survives the stabbing, I'd really like to see him forming a wilding army and taking back Winterfell should Stannis fail. It's unlikely, but it would be pretty awesome. I don't think Storm's End is optimistic. Shireen seems fated to die of her disease, leaving no trueborn Baratheons. Hard to imagine that family being allowed (by the author or by Stannis) to just disappear into nothing. Gendry, Edric and Mya are the three of interest. Agreed, It would be a waste. Yet I don't see how or why anyone would legitimise one of Robert's bastards. However, if someone where to be legitimised, the most likely is probably Edric. He is an acknowledged bastard and has an education, I do think that some would prefer Gendry to be legitimised however I don't believe that he has a very good chance. I think Gendry's story has either come to an end or we will see him taking over the Brotherhood and leading them into a war of some description (against the Others?). Sadly I see the Baratheon line dying out with Shireen, as her and Stannis' chances of surviving the series seems to be highly unlikely. But yes, in regards to the mostly likely of Robert's baseborn children getting legitimised I would say that Edric. His has a very slim chance though, that chance is Stannis out living his daughter. Why all the hating on Bella? Seriously, though, there's no reason for anyone to give Robert's bastards anything. If the Iron Throne is conquered by Dany, Aegon, or Euron, they'll need lands to give away to their staunch supporters. While Tommen keeps the throne, there's no way his mother would suffer Robert's real children to live, let alone inherit. Stannis has the power to legitimize the bastards and make them his heirs, but Stannis currently rules a fishing village west of Winterfell and nothing else. Unless Stannis has a huge turn of fortune, the only hope for Robert's bastards to rise high in the world is Varys, and that's a stretch. Varys does like collecting bastards, and he's a consummate player in the Game, but at this point he's gone all in on House Targaryen. Many people would have to die before Varys actively plotted to get Robert's bastards in power. Dany, Aegon and Euron would probably die rather than legitimising a Baratheon bastard to give them their families lands. I don't see how supporting a Baratheon would help their causes. Dany in particular hates all Baratheon and I can't image Aegon (fake or not) feels any different. In the event of his death, Stannis would rather have his daughter on the Iron Throne rather than a baseborn/legitimised son of Robert. Can't say I blame him. So the event of Stannis legitimising a bastard? Minimal. Collectin dem bastards like Littlefinger collects whores. I don't think Robert's bastards stand a chance of ever gaining any real power. --- So where does that leave our bastards? Well as I said above the only way Stannis would legitimise a bastard is if he outlives his daughter. But then of course he will want the Iron Throne for himself and wouldn't want a bastard challenging his claim. Not after everything he's gone through. I seriously doubt any of our three loveable bastards stand a chance of ever being legitimised. So in my opinion, Mya's story will come to an end when/if Sansa leaves The Vale. She'll continue to lead people up to The Eyre with her mules and maybe marry a hedge knight. Edric could either try to claim his families ancestral lands, die in the attempt as nothing more than one of Robert Baratheron's bastards or his story is finished. Gendry's story has either also already finished or we will see him rising the brotherhood to war against the others or The Freys. (OhpleasekillTheFreys!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy4Real Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 The only way I see things working out for Edric is if he comes back for Shireen and marries her. Otherwise the Song of Ice and Fire is the official end of the Storm Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Shaggydog Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Edric is already acknowledged, and apparently well liked at SE, and he was remarked to be a charmer or something of the sort by Stannis, etc. I have some doubt the Florents would be so gung-ho on pushing him into a place of power, since his mere existence is evidence of Edric's mother giving it up to Robert on Stannis' wedding night....that being said, the Florents have show themselves to be pretty power hungry, grasping, and willing to back whoever gives them a chance at glory. Still doubtful that person will be a 12 year old bastard of a dead king... But Edric does present an interesting option for some kind of future Lordship (most likely SE). Like Aegon (Young Griff), Edric was raised with education and training, and at the very least, would be someone who is intelligent and somewhat vested in the feudal structure of Westerosi society. Might be a decent ally for Aegon, depending on what happens in the meantime. Regarding Gendry - I also don't see a Stannis raising him to anything, unless Gendry does something incredible and makes himself worthy in Stannis' eyes. Sure, he's a smith, but would STannis even consider hiring him into Donal Noye's place, given that he looks like a freaking Baratheon and Stannis would have to grind his teeth every time he asked him to sharpen his daggers. In terms of the foreshadowing of him wielding a hammer - there is also the foreshadowing of Edric doing the same, somewhere in his possessions he has a replica of Robert's Warhammer - the gift from Varys. Regarding Rickon being recognized by the windings as the legit power in the north - I am pretty warm on that idea. Since its all based on assumptions since we have not seen or directly heard from Rickon in a long time, Im basing this on what we know of the boy and his wolf. The boy is fierce and wild, and has green dreams like Bran and Jojen. His wolf is huge and wild, and is by itself a massive intimidating force. I think he is going to be retrieved from Skagos with some kind of semi-wilding credibility, and again, this kid is himself wild. Just like the wildings have respect for wargs and strength and the old gods, they will not skoff at Rickon just because he is young. He has Stark blood, he is a warg, and his direwolf is black and terrifying. That is going to turn heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Good job the Starks are going to win then. I hear Starks like Baratheons.Well, according to a lot of fans, it'll be a Stark/Targ alliance vs Baratheons. So if they get their way, then this generation of Starks will break that tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy4Real Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 In terms of the foreshadowing of him wielding a hammer - there is also the foreshadowing of Edric doing the same, somewhere in his possessions he has a replica of Robert's Warhammer - the gift from Varys. I love how Edric was somewhat parallel to Jeoffrey in that he looked up to his father and wanted his approval, so much so that even wanted to use a warhammer. Then again, Edric may be a bit perpendicular to Jeoffrey being that he's not crazy and never had to deal with actually growing up around Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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