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[TWOW Spoilers] March 2014 Chapter Part III


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On Garin-Arya already mentioned mummers using the Rhoynar as a topic.





The mummers off the Ship showed her how a hero stands, and taught her speeches from The Song of the Rhoyne, The Conqueror’s Two Wives, and The Merchant’s Lusty Lady.





The Freys aren't on Arya's list.



On not much time having passed like originally thought I started to think that because of the Vanity Fair interview where GRRM said that Arya is still 11.

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Did the Faceless men have business with this envoy from Westeros? Or did Arya go rogue?



What happens to Arya with regards to the Faceless men? Raff, nor anyone from the Westerosi envoy, was part of a contract, I think.



This is my summary of part of the chapter, but I still have a lot of questions. Each sentence is my assumption, but it could also be read as a question.



Izembaro is acting as a mummer, but he's a FM. I assume setting up this playhouse was all part of the FM carrying out their next contract.



Arya pretty much ruined that plan because an envoy lost a man there to one of the mummers.



IDK, it's awesome that Arya stumbled into Raff and go her revenge, but I don't get the point of this chapter in the 'big picture.' Was it "Arya's revenge that also gets her expelled from the FM and she can move on to something else (Dany or back to Westeros)"? Or was it a cool chapter that didn't have anything to do with Arya moving forward?


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Seriously... What's the deal with the "keyholders"?! And why does Arya have a secret key?

And Phario Forel is just too much. Someone explain and/or theorize for me please!

Syrio mentions a playwright brother in GoT. The keys thing I'm still unclear on

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On Garin-Arya already mentioned mummers using the Rhoynar as a topic.

The Freys aren't on Arya's list.

On not much time having passed like originally thought I started to think that because of the Vanity Fair interview where GRRM said that Arya is still 11.

I'm not sure if the Garin comment was for me, I just wasn't sure if the Roynish/Dornish Nymeria's Garin was a Prince or a King, maybe? The dragonlord play, Forel's first, mentions a speech in it given by a Prince Garin character.

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I was posting in the last one! *kicks something* :P


Harumph. Ok now here we go....sorry for the lack of time stamps in the quotes, yo.





I do totally agree, I think Arya also enjoys that feeling of not normal and having her secret, I did mean to include that. It does seem very similar to the Sansa/Alayne situation (the things they are and are not thinking about), and now to a more noticeable degree with Arya in this chapter. I did notice The Dragonlord play made a mention of Prince Garin (I'm not sure, is that same Garin Nymeria is tied into?), I was just curious what it might say about the Forel's and the Braavosi views on Targs, dragons, slaves, even Dany now, etc. Like GRRM will ever answer this. ~snort~



Oh yeah, Prince Garin, forgot about him for a minute. So its probably an old, old Targ story.





Well, she seemed too confident and experienced on how to seduce a guy compared to the last we saw of her. I would't have imagined something like that from ADwD Arya. And not so much time has passed since then (I mean, then she was sent to Izembaro and now she's still with him, so...)



She mentions watching a lot of other girls. Like Wendeleyne who gives Izembaro a beejay in order to wear whatever she wants, among other things. Its not like Arya is unaware of how this stuff works. Plus she knows her target is a total scum and would go for it. She does question if shes too young or skinny but she takes the chance anyway.





That's exactly what I thought too. As she put it herself so well, 'no one has no hole inside of her'. New, fake memories replace the old true ones when she is a personna, memories that don't carry true emotionnal baggage. In AFFC, she casually tells Sam that one day she'll slit the throat of the guy who killed her (fake) father. We're miles away from the obsessionnal, semi-religious prayer. It's no big deal. And she was so enthousiastic when choosing her backstory with the KM. New memories help forget the old. The help Arya become what she could have been, and never will be.



Mmmhmm. :agree:


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Did the Faceless men have business with this envoy from Westeros? Or did Arya go rogue?

What happens to Arya with regards to the Faceless men? Raff, nor anyone from the Westerosi envoy, was part of a contract, I think.

This is my summary of part of the chapter, but I still have a lot of questions. Each sentence is my assumption, but it could also be read as a question.

Izembaro is acting as a mummer, but he's a FM. I assume setting up this playhouse was all part of the FM carrying out their next contract.

Arya pretty much ruined that plan because an envoy lost a man there to one of the mummers.

IDK, it's awesome that Arya stumbled into Raff and go her revenge, but I don't get the point of this chapter in the 'big picture.' Was it "Arya's revenge that also gets her expelled from the FM and she can move on to something else (Dany or back to Westeros)"? Or was it a cool chapter that didn't have anything to do with Arya moving forward?

I thought Arya, errrrrrrr Mercy, says that The Gate has been there for at least 20 years. I have the story's page open on GRRM's site, if anyone is still having trouble, I could check for specifics while I'm around.

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I was posting in the last one! *kicks something* :P

Harumph. Ok now here we go....sorry for the lack of time stamps in the quotes, yo.

Oh yeah, Prince Garin, forgot about him for a minute. So its probably an old, old Targ story.

She mentions watching a lot of other girls. Like Wendeleyne who gives Izembaro a beejay in order to wear whatever she wants, among other things. Its not like Arya is unaware of how this stuff works. Plus she knows her target is a total scum and would go for it. She does question if shes too young or skinny but she takes the chance anyway.

Mmmhmm. :agree:

I'm getting posted out, so don't feel obliged to answer me. Now, I'm wondering if that Garin is Nymeria's Garin....which is just a nice tie in to the wolf child, anyway.

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I thought Arya, errrrrrrr Mercy, says that The Gate has been there for at least 20 years. I have the story's page open on GRRM's site, if anyone is still havig trouble, I could check for specifics while I'm around.

So maybe Izembaro wasn't a faceless man, but Izembaro recently received the 'gift' of mercy, and the FM took his face, and then an actual faceless man put on Izembaro's face and kept right on going? So the other mummers never noticed Izembaro was gone?

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I'm not sure if the Garin comment was for me, I just wasn't sure if the Roynish/Dornish Nymeria's Garin was a Prince or a King, maybe? The dragonlord play, Forel's first, mentions a speech in it given by a Prince Garin character.

He was a prince.

For example, Arianne's friend:

"Prince Oberyn was full of stories." Garin said..."He told about Prince Garin, I remember, the one that I was named for." "Garin the Great," offered Drey, "the wonder of the Rhoyne." "That's the one. He made Valyria tremble." "They trembled," said Ser Gerold, "then they killed him. If I led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerold the Great?"

Wasn't that simply because she didn't know all their names, though?

Yes. As long as she doesn't go about learning their names they're not on her list.

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He was a prince.

For example, Arianne's friend:

Yes. As long as she doesn't go about learning their names they're not on her list.

Thank you. I was unsure of the title that her Garin had, and remembering Tyrion ruminating the history of Nymeria and Garin on his river trip, too. Thank you, again.

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So maybe Izembaro wasn't a faceless man, but Izembaro recently received the 'gift' of mercy, and the FM took his face, and then an actual faceless man put on Izembaro's face and kept right on going? So the other mummers never noticed Izembaro was gone?

I can't answer on The Iz, I just thought it sounded like perhaps you thought the theater was new and part of a set up for a specific assassination that still needed to take place, that's all.

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Tze said:

"Sleeping through her own rape" reminds me of the Grimm version of Snow White, and there are a number of Sansa/Snow White parallels throughout the text.


You know, "Snow White" is one of the fairy tales I have examined for a long time, including the oldest versions, and I would say that of the parallels between the tale and Sansa’s arc, the most relevant one is the conflict with the Queen figure which underscores the negative effects of a patriarchal statu quo; nowhere have I read that Little Snow White slept through her own rape. Nowhere. Much less in the Grimms’ original versions (plural) which I’ve read in German too, and have many “rewrites.” So I believe you have it completely wrong here: the original versions of the tale are grittier and darker, true, but it doesn’t include what you’ve just claimed. Not the versions of the Grimm Brothers, not even in the allegedly “real-life” inspiration for the tale, and cannot be found either in the Greco-Roman mythopoeia from which we can trace the plotline..

I think you’ve gotten your facts confused, if there’s a famous fairy tale in whose original version the princess is raped whilst unconscious, it’s “Sleeping Beauty” and it’s by Charles Perrault, by the way, and it has little to insignificant relevance for Sansa’s arc.

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Do you have a quote for that by chance?

Same question. How come familiar faces pop up? :P

Yeah, my "theory" with no textual proof whatsoever was that he was his brother.

A quote would be much appreciated for my own feeling of self-confidence :cool4:

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