Rhaegar fighting Robert

[Stormland's Fury]

Probably, but I'm still curious about what, if any weapon could have matched Robert's strength combined with his warhammer. I doubt a mace could, but who knows, right? Rhaegar might have actually been able to stand a chance if he had simply had the correct weaponry. Or perhaps he was simply doomed regardless of what was in his hand.

If someone smashes in his breastplate, it would put extreme pressure on his inner organs and it would be hard to get him out in time, even if he would survive the actual fight. No matter how big or strong he is, it's his armor that would be the weak point not him.

But Rhaegar fighting with a sword was basically like a bee against a rhinoceros.

[Lady Howell]

If someone smashes in his breastplate, it would put extreme pressure on his inner organs and it would be hard to get him out in time, even if he would survive the actual fight. No matter how big or strong he is, it's his armor that would be the weak point not him.

But Rhaegar fighting with a sword was basically like a bee against a rhinoceros.

So he was doomed regardless of whatever weapon he used, I guess.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Not really. the vast majority of knights will be running around with poleaxes. If they are mounted, they will have a lance. A sword will be a backup just in case. But no man in real life would go into battle with just a sword. Since this is fantasy and not real life, most lords and knights use swords. But I promise you, this was not the case in real life.

It's the same in Westeros. In battle, it's mostly lances, maces and longaxes (= poleaxes). Anybody wielding a sword in battle is rare, and in most cases a commanding officer not expected to fight himself.

We do know this? what? quotes please.

Lord Borell states that Jon Arryn attacked Gulltown (as the commanding officer), and that Robert was the first man on the Wall.

Robert states that Jon Arryn and Ned Stark gave him the throne.

Cat states that Jon Arryn or Ned Stark led the battles, while Robert was in the thick of things with his warhammer.

robert was on his own in the majority of battles in the start of the rebellion. Ned had command at the battle of the bells, and then all the rebel lords were together at the trident. Sooooooooo, where is this coming from?

lol, I see. the battle of the bells was one indecisive battle that almost ended badly for the rebels. So yeah. One battle =/ a war. The mental gymnastics required to argue that Robert giving ned credit for one battle means Ned Stark and Jon Arryn were the de facto commanders of the rebellion is staggering. though I should add I do agree with everything else bbe has said in this thread.

Anyway, do we know the north bought the most men? I am legit curious, any information I can get on the rebellion I eat up, I see people say the north bought the most men often, but never were this information is from. I cant for the life of me remember a quote from the books on the matter, so i think its an ssm? Can someone link it for me?

I know that the north is the only area that did not have any targ loyalists, but does that mean that northmen were the majority of men at the trident?

It's strongly implied. Apart from having no loyalists, the North had the largest numbers to begin with.

I see. Im not so sure, At the trident the rebels had 35,000 men. If you divide that by 4(each region, vale, riverlands, north, stormlands) that would mean each region had 8,750 men with them. We know Robert withdrew after his loss at ashford, but do people really think he had less then 8,000 men with him at this point? It doesnt seem likely to me, chances are the north vale and riverlands had the same amount of men. With robert bringing the least, but not by much. The low troop numbers(low for westeros, 35k is huge irl) can be easily explained by the lords leaving men behind, only bringing their best, and ned rushing south as quickly as humanly possible.

At the Battle of the Bells, Robert was pretty much on his own. He had lost his army at Ashford and while being hunted to the Riverlands by JonCon. He may have gathered some men between the Battle of the Bells and the Trident, but not many - the Stormlands were partially loyalist and partially kept down by the Tyrells. And cut off either way. He'd have only access to the refugees in the Riverlands.

I was referring to the book, I assure you, when I said that. Mostly swords in the books, is what I meant, not in real life. Thanks for that interesting tidbit, though.

But wait...were Rhaegar or Robert ever mounted during the battle? If they were, perhaps, like you said, Rhaegar had some sort of secondary weapon on him after all.

Yes, they were mounted. There are some references to the hooves of their mounts churning the water and stuff.

[Jasta11]

Maybe it's artistic license on Martin's part, since he does seem to like sending people with swords against plate armor that they would have a very hard time even denting. Or maybe it's to show Rhaegar was overconfident and didn't think Robert was that much of a beast. Or maybe he had no intention to fight that day but was forced to, either by Robert getting too close for comfort or Rheagar needing to bolster his side's morale.

Since Ray-Man did wound Bob, I assume he was either really good with that sword, or was using a heavier one perhaps.

[The Mad Wolf]

Rhaegar wasn't really there. He's in hiding somewhere etc. etc. lol. But seriously, I think he preferred a sword, that's why he used that as Robert used his preferred hammer.

[Stormland's Fury]

Maybe it's artistic license on Martin's part, since he does seem to like sending people with swords against plate armor that they would have a very hard time even denting. Or maybe it's to show Rhaegar was overconfident and didn't think Robert was that much of a beast. Or maybe he had no intention to fight that day but was forced to, either by Robert getting too close for comfort or Rheagar needing to bolster his side's morale.

Since Ray-Man did wound Bob, I assume he was either really good with that sword, or was using a heavier one perhaps.

That's why I wondered if it was Rhaegar's arrogance or Robert's bloodlust that initiated the fight.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

That's why I wondered if it was Rhaegar's arrogance or Robert's bloodlust that initiated the fight.

Rhaegar's arrogance most likely. Robert surely would've been looking for him but the Dragonspawn's arrogance and cockiness made him pick a fight with Robert the bane of Dragonspawn's.

[Stormland's Fury]

The Baratheons certainly have a knack for dealing with arrogance... Love them.

[GallowsKnight]

Rhaegar may have had a lance, long axe or a mace at the start of the battle. But he may have lost/broke them by the time he met Robert. Both were also mounted so Rhaegar couldn't have used a great sword or pole axe.

I wouldn't worry too much about realism considering Bronn without armor defeated Ser Vardis.

Bronn had mail and a nasal helm. He wasn't exactly unarmoured. Vardis Egan almost killed him at one point too.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

That's why I wondered if it was Rhaegar's arrogance or Robert's bloodlust that initiated the fight.

Rhaegar called out Robert for single combat. His arrogance. Guess he also had a personal vendetta against Robert just for Lyanna's betrothed.

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

Fighters tend to gravitate toward a signature weapon/move.

Robert favored the warhammer, Rhaegar the sword.

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

Rhaegar called out Robert for single combat. His arrogance His bravery.

Fixed.

[White Ravens]

The Baratheons certainly have a knack for dealing with arrogance... Love them.

Exactly! They fight fire with fire.

[White Ravens]

I would think Rhaegar fought with his sword because he was best trained with that weapon and that he hoped he would be able to use his own speed and agility with said weapon to avoid being struck by Roberts more cumbersome warhammer and to skirt around Roberts attacks to deliver counter attacks to vulnerable areas in Roberts armour.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Fixed.

...yeah, I'll give him that. But it was pretty dumb.

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

...yeah, I'll give him that. But it was pretty dumb.

Yea, i'll give you that

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Yea, i'll give you that

Even though, as mentioned before, Rhaegar was trained in mostly weapons, one goes to a important battle with the weapon such person controls the best. Dumb would have been him going with another hammer or something similar just because your enemy has that precise weapon. And yet, It's better than the notion of him going with the idea of dying because he knew he was doomed. If this was true, then he wouldn't have had that conversation with Jaime about "making changes". Or fight at all.

[Forfax]

Rhaegar knew his army was outmatched, I'm sure he made it a priority to get Robert off his list as it would pretty much end the rebellion and the war. I'm also sure Rhaegar wasn't much of a idiot to charge against Robert with just a sword( though he did injure Robert badly) Rhaegar was a great jouster, maybe GOAT jouster, so I believe he was armed with a lance, with a sword as backup.

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

Even though, as mentioned before, Rhaegar was trained in mostly weapons, one goes to a important battle with the weapon such person controls the best. Dumb would have been him going with another hammer or something similar just because your enemy has that precise weapon. And yet, It's better than the notion of him going with the idea of dying because he knew he was doomed. If this was true, then he wouldn't have had that conversation with Jaime about "making changes". Or fight at all.

Absolutely, it's all relative

In a fight to the death, there are really no rules. The only thing that matters is who wins, and you want to go with your best option in that case every time. I think Rhaegar truely believed he could and he would defeat *Robert, I disagree with those who think he solemnly rode to his inevitable death.

edit - Robert *

[Reek Da Villain]

Rhaegar had a sword and Cousin Bob had a war hammer. That's just how it went down.